Free Will is an illusion

You need to tell Cenk and Ana. Every time they do a segment on “choosing to be happy” it’s incredibly cringey. I did love though how after Cenk first started making this assertion as though it was “the truth” he got pushback from listeners who suffered from mental illness. But as usual, instead of accepting the criticism fully and changing his commentary accordingly, he said your will to choose your emotional state was only partially under your control, which is possibly an even dumber assertion.

I agree with sciguy24. So my pushback to Cenk and Ana is… happiness is not a choice, it’s a practice.

lol. Nah. Honestly, I’m only on here because people of like mind are here. I could care less about TYT.

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You have to choose to practise such things to be fair.

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I would encourage you all to read Sam Harris’s very short book called “Free Will”. It opened my eyes to this subject and I’m a changed man because of it.

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That’s weird, this being the TYT discussion forum, but whatever.
I was just surprised to see the thread title here if it wasn’t pushback on Cenk and Ana’s free-floating assertion that one’s emotional state is a choice.

Not necessarily. Think of it this way…

Two people start feeling generally run-down and unwell around the same time. Both see a doctor to diagnose their condition, and all the standard tests are run. But the doctor doesn’t find anything physical that would explain why they’re feeling so miserable and tired. So the onset of clinical depression is considered as a factor to be ruled out.

In the course of consultation with the doctor, each patient is told that one of the best therapies for mood disorders is physical activity. They are advised to go for a walk lasting 40 minutes at least 5 times a week, given a referral to a mental health professional, and sent on their way.

Now imagine that one of these people decides to give regular light exercise a shot and begins going for walks. Sure enough, they do start to feel better. Or at least well enough to begin researching what other lifestyle changes have been shown to improve one’s sense of well-being and happiness. Soon, they’re doing things like eating a healthier (if not reduced) diet, prioritizing a regular sleep schedule, and taking a once a week yoga class at the community center. They start drinking green tea and volunteering at the neighborhood shelter. They even get a pet!

The other person on the other hand, dismisses the doctor’s advice to try exercise before they even leave the office. They’re exHAUSTed! How could they possibly add walks to all the other crap they have to try to manage while feeling so lousy?! So they remain sedentary. Their diet doesn’t improve; in fact they eat even more unhealthy fare because it’s the only thing that seems to give them any kind of pleasure. They start to drink more too. Their sleep suffers. They feel worse, unmotivated to seek further medical assistance, and eventually succumb to full-blown, crippling depression.

Now, how would you explain why the two similar patients followed different courses of action?

You could say the first patient simply chose the better path because they applied their reason to the problem and picked the more logical option, whereas the other patient just made a bad decision. And as a human being myself, it certainly feels like that’s what’s happening when I “decide” on a course of action to pursue.

But you could also look at the two cases and conclude: these people followed different routes to different ends because that’s the kind of people they were to begin with. Each of them has a different physical makeup informed by a unique lifetime of inputs that resulted in the complex creature with a miraculous brain that went to the doctor for help in the first place. The one was pre-determined to follow the doctor’s advice, the other to ignore it…

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…[cont.] And that’s what the science seems to show, as sciguy24 pointed out. We humans are not rational actors. We’re not making considered decisions about what to do, think, or feel before we act, speak, or emote. We seem to be instead the sum of our biology, our experiences, and the activities and inputs we make habitual. At least that’s what the research shows.

Lastly, though, this doesn’t mean whoever we are at this moment is destined to be who we become as time passes and we mature into old age, assuming we’re so lucky. It is possible to improve one’s outlook, to feel better, and maybe to become happier. But it depends on hearing the advice about how to practice good health and implementing it. It also depends a great deal on pure, dumb luck.

So, don’t blame yourself or others too much if you or they act in harmful ways. We aren’t in complete control of what we think or who we are. Rather, model better behavior, spread good arguments with better and sounder advice, and practice, practice, practice.

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You know what…disagree or not i love pushback and will try to open my mind more thankyou.

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We are nothing more than molecules doing what molecules do and that’s a difficult reality for some to accept, especially if you were raised in a religious home. If thoughts are biological and electrochemical processes, we’re not in control.