Immigration reform

General Discussion General Chat
8

Thank you, fieldmouse, I like your suggestions.

Holding companies more accountable for how they deal with immigrant workers seems very important. If they have to show their paperwork and the labor department is actually making sure they do, then we have a very different situation. I would like to see more of the authority over immigration shift toward the labor department in general. I’m not sure how we on the outside can push for such a shift, but I’m on board for sure.

You said DACA is a no brainier, yet it’s under attack. Maybe we should start with DACA. I don’t have numbers, but I reckon most folks would vote in favor of it, and the big corporations won’t lose money, I don’t think, if we preserve it. I’m going to remind my representatives how I feel about defending DACA and remind the guy I’m supporting for congress of how popular it is.

Another offshoot from Reagan’s reforms I’ve been thinking about is the temporary work visa stuff. I think Eisenhower made the first moves in that direction, or at least congress did it and Eisenhower approved, and it’s designed for agricultural seasonal workers, and expanded during Reagan for the same group, but travel is different now, and agriculture was never ‘unskilled’, as it is classified.

This stuff needs to be adjusted. I have been talking with caregivers from Jamaica who get temporary work visas for a few months, and as soon as they get a good grasp on their job and get a good relationship with their clients, they have to go home, and they can’t bring their families. Caregiving is apparently also categorized as ‘unskilled’.

Oh, and amnesty, oh I would love it. Someone please bring that to the floor. I don’t see it getting through this congress, but yes, I’m fully on board with blanket amnesty and a streamline path to citizenship.

1 Like
9

So, I think this thread sounds a tad specific, like this reform would be the result of some strategy. And, I think that strategy is what operation hope is looking for, but not just for this result, but for broadly applicable results that would include this specific issue. Am I making sense?

For instance, I would point to my topic thread on running progressive republicans, and in it are examples of political dynamics which I would strategically use to reach this type of specific outcome, among other progressive policy results. Maybe check out the topic on running progressive republicans if what I’m saying sounds interesting. I would be particularly interested in pipwige’s input over there, and also fieldmouse as well.

Thanks <3

10

Thank you sciguy24. I agree that corruption is a huge obstacle to immigration reform. Racism is a big obstacle, too, and racism and corruption are really raging these days. I think the two main reasons congress and Biden refuse to really address the border catastrophe are that big agricultural wants to keep cheap labor in Central America, and because politicians don’t want to be associated with replacement theory. That statement by trump that immigrants are poisoning our blood has a lot behind it.

Yet, the Afghan Adjustment Act looks like it will get through. Even Lindsay Graham is a co-signer. It might not be big in the sense that it fixes the whole structure, but for people from Afghanistan living in Seattle, who don’t know if they’ll be shipped back next year, it is huge.

Also, the whole immigration policy and bureaucratic structure is anti-immigrant and anti-immigration. I think that when they pass smaller bills that don’t get all that much press, and that people generally agree on, and that are somehow pro-immigrant and pro-immigration, we shift some of the momentum, and we can build on that.

I think fighting for immigration reform can help us make progress on corruption and racism, too.

11

Thank you jared123456,
I’ll see what I can do. :slight_smile:

1 Like
12

Thank you for your thoughts. Let me be clear, I am not advocating doing nothing. I’m saying we need to target our time, energy, and resources on the one thing that is holding back our most important initiatives: money in politics. In real terms, the main pipe that feeds all the other pipes is clogged. Money in politics is clogging all our initiatives. If we don’t fix the main problem all the other “incrementalist” solutions are temporary.

13

You are welcome. Thank you. Maybe you are right. I like what fieldmouse said about chewing gum and walking at the same time. I think when I keep working on what I’m passionate about, and you keep working on what you’re passionate about, then together we are much more than the sum of our parts. Our diversity is our greatest strength. Go team.

2 Likes
14

I had different opinions on immigration until recently. Of course if you’ve been here most of your life, went to school here, worked here citizenship should be a given.

Border immigration is a huge problem. I didn’t realize we didn’t vet people very well, can’t teach them, don’t really have housing and necessarily jobs for them. That includes ones that sneak across the border. People with no homes or jobs are more vulnerable to being used by criminals in multiple ways. I worry that we currently can’t get a handle on housing, homelessness, gang violence, trafficking, etc… with people already here.

We need innovative solutions that don’t make current problems worse, offer a good quality of life for those here and coming in and treat immigrants with respect and decency. Waiting centers shouldn’t be like prisons or separating families or take forever to get there cases to court.

We need someway to stop the illegal crossings, I’ve heard on TYT listening sanctions in there home countries could help.

We need better facilities for those claiming asylum. And more judges clerks attorneys streamlined processes so people aren’t waiting forever.

A system that keeps track of new immigrants in a respectful way, to make sure people with bad intentions aren’t sneaking in. How do you do that respectfully not sure.

A nationwide system that matches people with housing and jobs vs dumping busloads in places already struggling with housing and living wage employment.

My ideas lack specifics need some creative people to fill that in. Think it’s definitely a topic hell have to address.

1 Like
15

Thank you for your comments, blustery_breeze.

Yeh, I agree, the border issue and illegal immigration is a mess. There are a lot of categories involved, and I’m not sure how to best move forward, honestly. The only real consensus seems to be that what’s going on is not working.

There’s another side to it that I think is worth considering. I don’t have numbers on any of this, and I wouldn’t really trust the numbers if I did, but I suspect that more people are here illegally who have overstayed their visas than those who have snuck across the border. A lot more. People who overstay their visas make things much more difficult to get visas and for people who are trying to follow the rules and stay in legal status. The mess around all this, I think, is why they don’t send a bunch of extra judges to the border; all those judges are years behind in their caseloads already.

Stepping back another layer, when people apply for an immigrant visa, stating clearly their intention to become US citizens, they might have to wait a decade for their request to be decided, and if they can’t show that they have a highly valued skill, they will likely be denied. Showing up at the border and applying for asylum used to be a legal short-cut, (and I think that’s very different from sneaking across, or being smuggled across, the river or the desert), but the requirements for being granted asylum are different from ‘we want a better life for our children.’ Asylum is for people who are under threat of political violence back home. So, the way I see it, most of the people stuck at the border are in the wrong line and filling out the wrong forms.

I really don’t know what to do. The most recent comprehensive immigration reform was under Reagan, and it had a lot of border-security enhancement and a lot of amnesty for those who overstayed their visas. Since then, almost forty years, congress has basically avoided the issue as it keeps getting worse. And as for helping people get housing and jobs, maybe integrating more local governments with federal funding and giving immigrants solid information and contacts to help them decide where to go.

I don’t know. I’m open to suggestion for sure.

16

It is so super complicated. Any solution is going to have to be in steps and take awhile for sure.

17

I am not sure if tracking them is what is needed. I think the problem you are grappling with has more to do with erroneous record keeping and corrupt government. This is really difficult to do when vetting if you cannot trust reporting from an immigrants country of origin.

The last I checked there was more over staying of visas, however that doesn’t look good on a camera. I think the optics is the issue in a way the fact that you catch them on film is the issue. This is also due to our asylum laws and how we treat poor immigrants. It is some sadistic survival exercise and it doesn’t have to be.

We need virtual courts. Judges shouldn’t go anywhere physically. We clearly have a huge issue with judicial oversight. We allow stenographer funding to be removed in many courts and that permitted huge amounts of judicial corruption. The fact that little to few members of the legal profession raise this issue seems highly problematic.

I think it is long past time we force cameras in all court rooms (not saying make all proceedings public). We need a citizens review board of lawyers and citizens to be pooled like a jury (lawyers often cannot serve a jury). This pool would scrutinize courtroom conduct and decisions. They would issue a report and be paid for their time.

Almost like an auditing jury.

18

Thank you, enduser. And thanks again to all who are engaging here.

Yes, I think transparency is worth fighting for, and it’s something that conservatives can get on board with, too. In addition to monitoring court proceedings, and maybe an audit of USCIS, maybe we can argue to let the press into the detention centers on the border.

I’ve been thinking about the helping people find places to live and work issue, too. I saw a while back, I think it was on PBS Newshour, an interview with a spokesperson for a religious organization that does just that. She said that there are a bunch of religious organization around the country doing this sort of work, and that when the government gets more involved, it just gets in the way and makes their work more difficult. Her argument was that the government should get less involved so that these organizations can do the work.

In that vein, I’ve been thinking that maybe a more fruitful approach would be to focus on repealing law, rather than creating more, and reigning in governmental control over the process. I remember when I first started researching this I watched a video for law students who are intending to work in immigration, and they opened with a list of about twenty federal agencies with which such a lawyer would communicate.

I would also like to see some sort of clarification that a Muslim ban is unconstitutional. I like that the president has the authority, thanks to a law signed in by Jimmy Carter, to declare a refugee emergency and bring a whole bunch of people in beyond the national quota limits (which I would also like to repeal), and help them settle around the country.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m unrealistic about the situation in the beltway, but I figure there are still a bunch of reasonable small government folks out there who don’t hate immigrants, who believe in the US as a land of opportunity, and who are willing to mobilize for reform.

Maybe we can come up with a bullet point list of five or six priorities that we can send to our representatives and candidates? Any thoughts?

19

From what I can tell our immigration issues stem from a s
Starve the Beast strategy that was employed in the 80s and 90s targeting the government by the GOP. The state department and its inability to allow embassies to effectively take on immigration seems to be a byproduct. Application processing and proper due diligence should be funded and demanded. In fact our embassies should act as ombudsman and infrastructure facilitator in some countries if possible.

I will attempt to generate a list as requested.

20

Back to Categorized Ideas

Reply tailored for polling and gaining consensus on ideas and priorities

artifact-of-change legislation-idea

Poll for: immigration-reform

Summary

Topic: Foreign Policy
Subcategory: Immigration Reform
Is Legislation: Yes
Is Federal: Yes
States: -

What? Why?
There is a proposed bill for making exceptions for Afghan refugees, (Afghan Adjustment Act) which is great. AOC mentioned recently that the government should fast-track getting work permits to asylum seekers who are in the country waiting for asylum status rulings. [Strategic: more attainable]

Actions:

Original Poster @pipiwige , if you have any disputes regarding the classification (What and Why, etc.), please @ me and I will update in accordance… it is after all, Your input

Now @everyone, please vote on the following questions:

  • Are you in favor of this idea? (higher is better)
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
0 voters

If AGAINST, on what grounds are you against the idea?

  • Conceptual Grounds (Idea itself)
  • Strategic Grounds (Strategic Liability)
0 voters

Back to Categorized Ideas

21

There are a bunch of factors at play. I think the basic frame is that there are two calamities that play into immigration. The first is climate change, water food instabilities that stem from this. The second is lack of incentives for both sides (nations) to meet in an equitable agreement. I think the divergence between what is politically viable, and at the same time addresses systemic change will be very difficult.

As far as I can tell this as stated before is still relevant.

We could augment the idea with gaining forecasts on immigration mitigation infrastructure. The state department does this work on some level I would imagine. USAID was functionally a path for infrastructure projects along with the WBG being a funder.

We must mention there is an impending population collapse is over hyped in my estimation. I mention it here are two fold; one is it could be a slow unwind, or a quick one. I am in favor the less turbulent option, but we ignore it at our peril. Two is that this is a disincentive to invest in a country that is sending you their population. This is especially likely to their detriment at some point if world population trends continue.

Which is to lead me to my final point; the under lying factors here need to be addressed. If we don’t fix these issues we have little chance elsewhere in the long run.

The next is expatriates and the so called brain drain. This can happen to all countries and we should be careful not to all our human talent pool to be driven away. We have a version of this with the so called passport bros. We are likely to disparage them but like the so called neck beards. We may find it acceptable to mock them but we are less strong without their potential contributions. Also it should be said the passport bros far more often then not make a new life in their brides home country.

22

On to migration, traditionally what was done is we coordinate the immigrant population with the population here with their closest ethnic makeup. This has some major advantages, and drawbacks. This creates pockets of communities that all codify, but may find it difficult to assimilate more broadly.

I think the move is you mix it up, and you explain to migrants the choice before them. You say there are more jobs in XYZ towns and cities. If you seek support from a community members with a similar ethnicity we recommend these places. To the extent they overlap that could be highlighted. Then the crucial part is you fund programs to create a support system that looks at the entire family.

Shifting immigration from a person to person focus to a family group focus would create efficiencies in the system that don’t seem apparent at first. Redundant due diligence seems to be an issue here.

What seems to be the ideal common case is you give the migrant the best information possible then allow them to choose. Crucially when they choose where to go we then support the choice as best as possible given the circumstances.

If many choose a certain series of options are popular this may indicate the need for creating a social support node for this group. Our duty is to identify that node, and its needs then build it out. While you maintain a fabric of support with a social worker core as best you can.

I must say there is moral hazard in generating this list, I suspect most would not understand that statement. The current power structure would likely view an immigration system as a stop gap measure to stem our declining birth rate trends.

I know places like Sweden are in a crisis, so it would appear we are in a bit of a catch 22 situation. The frame I give this information is that, this list isn’t as detailed as I would like. Know that immigration is generally a closely related to many other issues. This means when you solve other underlying problems you will indirectly solve migration pressure.

Conditions that exacerbate migration:

Industry overrepresented in government policy over the interest of populous in nations.

Apathy by the those in the positions of power and the populations that should hold them to account.

23

Counter measures:

  1. Rate of opportunities should be gaged and published for gender, ethnicity, and region.

  2. Outreach support should exist to help those in need. The nature of the problem is that we need to have a sort of social worker response team.

  3. Enhanced income and benefits extended to skilled mentors subsidized by the state and NGO fabric. There are many in society that are older and have great knowledge to give. It would be great if space were made for them to do so.

  4. Hope intervention targeting at risk youth granting them opportunity where if they are willing to work through a remedial onboarding program they are paid to do work in a foreign civil core. I think the underlying mandate is travel. Having public / military craft with boatswain / shipwright crew internships. You need to show young men the world to allow them to see the possibilities before them.

  5. Employee ex-gang members to act as de-escalation squads. These gangs will much more likely respect the words of others that have been in the lifestyle. These squads could act as a response team that attempts to deescalate known points of conflict. This program could be the tip of the spear of a jobs, and societal reintegration program.

  6. Apathy of ourselves and others when dealing with the plight of poorer countries needs to be confronted with the moral hazard arguments that are appropriate.

I hope this helps, I would offer greater scope and detail once / if the political meta changes.

1 Like
24

Thanks Enduser,

Yeh, that all sounds fine. I don’t know. I’m thinking a lot of what you suggest is in place, it’s simply overwhelmed and the volume of immigration allowed is inconsistent.

I don’t see it as a slash and burn republican issue so much as a patch job of incoherent legislation by both parties, but maybe there’s some of both.

I agree that global warming is a big part of this… and that it will get to be more of a problem.

I really like the idea of ex-gang member de-escalation squads. I hadn’t thought of that.

You also bring up a good point, I think, about the infrastructure of immigration. Human traffickers are making money getting people to the border, and the migrants are not getting accurate information as to what will be waiting for them.

Meanwhile, there are people in the US from all over the world who have to continue filing and showing up for court dates for years before they are granted a green card, and then for years before they are granted citizenship.

Meanwhile, Rohingyan refugees have been stuck in an open air prison in Bangladesh for six years. I think we should be helping them first as we did with the Hmong… according to need… but I won’t even bother to suggest that to my congressman. :slight_smile:

I don’t know. I’m thinking what I would most like to see over the next year is a push to get reporters into those border prisons.

Go team. :slight_smile:

1 Like
25

Thanks Fourthwall Dragon.
Those were two different ideas, but it’s nice to be included.
Go team. :slight_smile:

2 Likes
26

So, here’s the kind of reform I’m thinking of…

IMG_20231211_062637583
IMG_20231211_0626375831920×2560 132 KB

IMG_20231211_125601521
IMG_20231211_1256015211920×2560 216 KB

rather than this…

peace and love.
go team go. :slight_smile:

1 Like
27

ps. …and this…

go team.

1 Like