Cancel Student Debt

[wrongturn]

What taking for granted?
This is basic economics. I am not talking past anything, you are. You are yet to explain where the loss incurred by the federal government is going to be paid from?
If you believe it is not from taxes, printing or just raising debt. Is the fairy godmother going to give it? You haven’t explained the basics of your non logic Like investing in green energy will reduce inflation somehow.
You cant print money out of thin air. period, numbers don’t know politics. You cant label literal balance sheets with a political label to criticise them without actually providing any logical argument of how money falls from the sky. You trying to stick other people with the bill of your irresponsible financial choices is unacceptable.

And cut the obama civility routine. Especially when you literally call names to people diagreeing with you. get off your faux moral high horse. Your feelings don’t matter. Debate facts which you haven’t been doing. All you have said is “this isn’t true” “that isn’t true” without explaining WHY? without giving an ounce of what logic of economics you are using to generate money out of thin air. Ill wait for you to wear your big boy pants and have a fact based discussion

[jared123456]

@wrongturn

You are yet to explain where the loss incurred by the federal government is going to be paid from?

(earlier):

@jared123456

No one must pay the creditor’s loss.

…

@wrongturn

You haven’t explained the basics of your non logic Like investing in green energy will reduce inflation somehow.

(earlier):

@jared123456

Because inflation is not solely a monetary phenomena, printing money does not itself simply cause inflation. If what government finances is a productive investment, like the earlier energy example, then the production of that real value increases market supply and lowers market price, (ie deflation). Since energy is an input into other sectors such as food, an increased supply of nationalized energy lowers not only the price for energy, but also the derived prices such as food.

…

(thus, projection):

@wrongturn

I am not talking past anything, you are.

…

Please consider being mature enough to be respectful with your writing, ideally with actual engagement in discussion.

[jared123456]

@wrongturn

Oh yes, lets shut people up for their “tone” because you don’t have actual facts. … stop trying to censor people saying things you don’t wanna hear

This is not what is happening. Rather, as was said:

@drea_m_r_76

Your tone is very condescending, which is not ideal if you want people to listen to what you have to say.

Again, in fact, we are trying to help people hear your point, and we are showing you how the way you are writing is counterproductive to you making your own point in a way that others might actually critically think that they should listen to you. As it stands, your way of writing your point is such that critical readers will think that your points are not actually credible.

[drea_m_r_76]

If you are going to address me, please do so respectfully or not at all. Thank you.

[wrongturn]

Oh please, Obama, you can stop with the civility BS, If you don’t have the patience to listen to facts that counter your non logic, you don’t have to engage. But when you literally call names to people who disagree with you, you kind of lose the ability to talk about tones and shit. If you want correct tone, maybe show the same respect and tone you command from others. Or take a hike.

As for your non logic.

@jared123456

No one must pay the creditor’s loss.

Again, the Loss doesn’t evaporate into thin air., That is going to be filled in form somewhere because money doesn’t fall from the sky. Continuing to assert without logic that you can just create money out of this air is precisely the problem.

@jared123456

earlier energy example

Dude do you have any idea how much investment is needed to make green energy even profitable, let alone a boost to the economy? you are going to have to pump money into green energy for years before you can see any return, if any. The return is supposed to be decreased cost of harm to the environment. For decades this will just increase the cost of everything. Please do basic research first.

@jared123456

printing money does not itself simply cause inflation

yes it does.
Modoern monetary system is basically demand and supply of money. If the demand for dollar is higher than supply, value of dollar remains strong. Since we import most things, things cost less. People put money into the treasury, govt can borrow from it and spend and everything is fine.

Once you start printing mindlessly, supply exceeds demand, value starts falling. Imports become expensive aka inflation. disposable income goes down, people spend less and market cools, businesses cut jobs, unemployment increases, people have still fewer dollars to spend and the cycle continues.

At the same time people are less interested in investing in treasury because the falling value wont give returns. So the govt raises interest rates. Which translates into raised interest rates for credit cards and loans etc as well as for treasury bonds to attract investment, But that in turn again increases interest rate payments and adds to the debt down the line and confidence in economy crumbles further and the cycle continues.

[wrongturn]

you get what you dish out. Feel free to stop talking to me. You have nothing to contribute to the discussion anyway

[wrongturn]

This ridiculous notion of we can print things out of thin air and have unlimited debt was a nice daydream for a while- starting In 1972 when petrodollar started, while USD was international trade currency. OPEC had promised to sell all the oil in $ and invest whatever money they made into treasury (petrodolalr recycling). It was considered that because countries always need more energy, there will always be demand for more $ and so even if we keep printing, nothing will happen. people knew this wasn’t true for unlimited money but It was considered impossible to print do much. But after NAFTA, Bush wars, right after 2008, during Obama wars, enough money was printed that supply started to exceed demand, even though it was being managed - barely. But then the pandemic shutting the economy down, stimulus (which was necessary) and all the wars under Biden meant more and more printing and now the balance has tipped over. Add to the fact that other countries are dumping $ reserves and trading in other currencies., So now demand is declining ., So printing money is inflationary. At this moment, it doesn’t matter what the govt does with it, if they print, inflation will go up.

It was also thought back in 1972, that because oil sales will continue to grow as world economies grow, petrodollar recycling would increase year after year. And US gvt could keep taking more debt because increasing investments would pay off the interest on the debt. But because of above mentioned issues investments stopped increasing in 2012 and started decreasing post Ukraine. So now we have no way to pay off the coming interest rate payments unless we draw more investments. This is also why they cant cut interest rates.

As for investing in productive things, At this moment of the government started investing in productive things, the economy might start to turn around. But that would still take years. The whole problem is NAFTA started outsourcing manufacturing jobs. And right now USA real growth is negative. consensus for real economic growth as measured by the Blue Chip Economic Forecast was negative 0.1% for the year 2023. So the govt is NOT investing in anything productive. Which is why anything that adds to the debt, or causes printing of money is inflationary and WILL transfer the burden to everyone else.

Go one hurl some more name calling, Ill wait

[vener]

Telling someone that they have nothing to contribute to a conversation is rude and does nothing to convince anyone that your arguments are worth reading. You keep stating hypotheses as if they were facts. Or even, as if they were measurable observables. Your conclusions are based entirely on assumptions and not necessarily correct ones at that.

Stop insulting people. It makes you look like an arrogant jerk. Possibly you are a very nice person, but that’s not how you are coming off here. This does not engender real discussion.

[wrongturn]

I have not mentioned hypotheses, THis IS how economy works in the real world. These ARE actual facts. You can look them up. I have also provided basic logic to give you an outline of how and why things would behave the way they were so you could test it with basic rational analysis, If you don’t have the mental capacity to follow it, you can actually open a website and educate yourself about economics.

And it is a bit rich coming from you whose only explanation so far has been declarative statements not even bothering to explain how that would be possible in the real world. It is very evident you don’t have a clue how economy works and just want to get something you want without thinking about the impact on others.

I haven’t even begun talking about how this promotes more irresponsible decisions from more people. You can either view education as a means to get a better job and earn more. For eg in STEM branches.
Or you can look at it as something people should have access to and should pursue irrespective of jobs.
The first one means all the courses that don’t result in direct productivity are not going to generate revenue, wont have many jobs and wont make you money. So no one will focus on them. The focus would only be to spend on STEM courses and others that would have good prospects,
The second one means, education should be free but people should not expect high income jobs from all courses.
Since we live in a society that mainly follows the first logic, you automatically have many degrees not producing jobs. High loan burden is a deterrent for people to continue to pick those unless you are a rich person by hobby. When you forgive student loans, this promotes people to take useless courses (like a course on Taylor swift’s one song) with no earning potential, THis BS makes colleges a ponzi scheme to enrich banks instead of enriching minds with ideas. As is evident by the shutting down of protests and unwelcome speech on campuses.

I could go on, but I don’t think you have an open enough mind to listen to , let alone absorb and analyse criticism properly.

This isn’t 2014 where war criminal Obama can scream “civility” at criticism to silence it. If you don’t have facts to offer because you don’t have an understanding of the topic in discussion, accept that and learn something. Trying to drown out criticism with adhominems isn’t going to work. And if you want internet discussions, please wear your big boy pants and leave your ego at the door. A good discussion will challenge beliefs you have held without ever analysing or processing the logic (lack thereof) behind them. It is natural for you to feel uncomfortable at that time. But being an adult means you overcome that and examine your beliefs critically, do some research and then see whether new information is valid and adjust your view accordingly. Or counter with actual facts and logic. Or you can put fingers in your ears, cry about it and keep coddling your feelings, IDC.

[wrongturn]

Oh please, when you keep insulting people, you can hardly blame them for doing the same to you. And it isn’t insulting if its true. 5 comments from that person and all they have done is whine about a comment that was never addressed to them and then said don’t contact me. Like no one ever did in the first place. If they want to dish, they better be able to take it. I don’t know why they need an advocate or why you are acting like one. Such crybabies.

And if a percevied “tone” closes down your mind to facts, that is a you problem. Deal with it in your own time. I am no one’s therapist. But we all know that is just a face saving excuse because you KNOW you don’t actually know what you are talking about and cannit argue facts and logic, hence you want to use emotions, fake hurt feelings and faux outrage to shut the conversation down. It would be way more dignified if you just accepted it, you know. No shame in that