I’m 43 now, recently freed from Christianity. Disclaimer: The views expressed are my opionion.
As I look back on my life I believe most, if not all, the problems I had from childhood to now had someting to do with my reigious beliefs. Simply put, Christians are not taught to think for themselves. They are not taught to look at the world from a realist point of view and formulate a course based on that information only. They rely on the Bible or God to think for them. This leads to intellectual laziness, immaturity, and prolonged ignorance. I see it in myself and others with a religous background.
In my 20s I can honestly say I did not know how to make the important decisions in life and that has costed me dearly. I didn’t know how to evaluate the situations I was in because I wasn’t taught to think for myself and form my worldview based on that. My worldview was based in the Bible. I was told God should order my steps. Instead my financial and intellectual goals should have been ordering my steps.
I find what you have stated very interesting and thank you for sharing your experience. I myself was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness but never believed and was homeschooled on top of that. In fact, I was the only member of my family that wasn’t involved and being the youngest of my family and being born deaf it was extremely difficult. By the time I was 10 I started to get my family away from that cult attitude little by little. I somehow succeeded and by 14 was completely free of the same things you brought up. That’s also why I went into anthropology at university and was always thinking this subject matter. All my family has passed away now but am happy they died free. Anyway thank you for sharing such a personal experience.
Just to make sure that nobody takes this the wrong way, I’m not anti Christian nor am I against any religion really. But I don’t feel it helps much when people can’t think without their go to answers from something supernatural. I’ve definitely written more than a few papers about religion vs science but would never look down on anyone’s personal beliefs.
Thank you, @sciguy24 and @horus_lives, for sharing your stories. Religion is such a profoundly personal and, for many, painful thing. I consider myself a Recovering Catholic. Growing up, I was made to feel bad and guilty for literally being born, and it didn’t get much better as I grew up. I tried other sects of Christianity and was never sold on any of them. I believe we’re all connected, and there’s something spiritual in all of us and all things; I don’t, however, believe in any religion, per se. To me, empathy, openness, gratitude, and presence are as essential as and to critical thinking and science. I value each person’s beliefs as long as they don’t use them to harm.
But seriously…I feel like ever since I left the faith I’m finally thinking for myself. It’s like everything makes a lot more sense. I don’t have all the confusion in my mind anymore.
I’m not confused when it comes to my career direction or life decisions. I don’t have to worry about what God thinks. All I need to care about is what I know is right financially and moraly…
It reminds me of this passage - Proverbs 3:5-6:
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
(In other versions of the bible, it’s “acknowledge” vs “submit” - but the meaning there so quite different)
Yeah. Christians are not taught to use common sense or think for themselves. Every decision is supposed to go through God. Intellectual curiosity, common sense, and thinking for yourself is suppressed.
That is true sometimes but there are also situations where people can over compensate or make bad decisions because they are upset at something in their past. For instance I had to reel my mom and dad in a little for being so aggravated at themselves for committing to a faith that just wasn’t right for them. They both had issues with the Catholic Church before I existed. Both were Irish catholics but I never threw it in their faces after the fact when they left what I was born into. I have no doubt that it works for some and not for others. It has definitely created wars for thousands of years. It comes down to the individual and how they perceive it. Sometimes it’s just someone wanting to be a part of something or even the majority but it’s always different and none of us can judge someone on those merits alone.
Sure there are a variety of reasons why people join a religion. Most of the time it happens when we’re children. The adults in our life tell us something and we have no choice but to acquiese. I call it the “Cycle of ignorance”. One ignorant person indoctrinating a child with the same ignorance. Thank God I was taught some science in high school.
At 43, I’m a late bloomer in this. Many, if not most, of my friends transitioned a long time a go. But in Fundamentalist Evangelical Pentecostal churches, like the one I was raised in, the indoctrination is deep – very deep. Most people can’t climb out of it. It’s a miracle I was able to. And now my fog has lifted and I see clearly. I’m not deceived anymore. My mind has been un-fucked.
No, you are thinking about Evangelical Christians. Full disclosure; I am a former Catholic that went to Catholic School till 7th grade back in the 80’s. I switched to Public School and received all of the “Sacraments”. I am now Logical Atheist and will argue any religion with any devout believer in a logical manner.
Most Christians I know; including family, are not the super bible thumping people that many think of when talking about Christianity. Most Christians, and any other religion, out there use their faiths as a Moral compass and that is it. I don’t think Christians even go to Church/Mass as often as they did when I was growing up in the70/80’s. They do have intellectual curiosity, common sense(some more than even us), and think for themselves. They interpret the Bible a lot different than the Evangelicals too. They take lessons from it where the Evangelicals think that it is “The Word of God” and must be followed and if you stray from that path you are Evil and going to hell. If you think that Christians do not have any commons sense and can’t think for themselves then that is no different than Evangelicals saying we are going to suffer for all eternity because we don’t believe like they do.
No, catholics believe in holy scripture, they believe hell is the punishment for sinners. If the person is a believer at any level and if you eee the world from a christian world view, my statement still applies.
My point was that you are lumping ALL Christians in together in one big group when they are as diverse in their beliefs and how they live their lives with those beliefs as any other group in the world. It seem to me that you are lumping ALL Christians in together and saying they are ALL Evangelicals when they are not. This is no different than when they lump all Muslims together saying they are all Shiite Terrorists
Not all Christians think like this. You are lumping them in with the Evangelical Christians. A lot of my family and friends that are Christians here in KY know how to think for themselves and do. Are the moral teachings they had in religion class in the back of their mind influencing them some? Yes, but they do not allow those teachings to CONTROL them and know they have “free will” and think for themselves
I get what you’re saying, and in many ways, I agree. Some sects are more rigid, and some churches of the same sects are more rigid still. I think @Galphar has a great point about Evangelical churches and @horus_lives about Jehovah’s Witnesses. I often think of LDS, Mormon, and Jehovah’s Witness as the same, which is probably totally wrong. Does anyone else know about these? That makes me think of Born-Again Christians, too. I think many Born-Again Christians become Evangelicals. While I can only speak on my experience, a lot of churches (i.e., Evangelical) come off as very cult-like, which is the opposite of critical thinking. At the same time, my Dad’s side of the family is pretty churchy, and they are the most open-minded people you’ll ever meet. Seriously, they don’t care if someone is trans, gay, Muslim, Native American (it would be awkward for me if they cared about this ), or Republican (); they only care if you’re kind. My dad’s not churchy, considers himself a Christian, and doesn’t trust people who tell you right away and often that they are Christians. I think some Christians are closed-minded, while others believe in God, Jesus, and the message of his teachings. This doesn’t necessarily have to be mutually exclusive to critical thinking. Just like some scientists and Atheists are very closed-minded. I don’t really know what I’m saying anymore, so I’ll stop typing.
I’m sorry if my words are confusing. Let me make it clear: All versions of Christianity teach you to submit your life to God. This means you cannot have your own world view. It must be in line with the doctrine of the church you’re allegiant to. That’s my point. They’re not empowered to evaluate the world logically and base their lives on that. It has be based on God’s plan or else you’re in rebellion against God which is a sin. Here’s what the Apostle Paul said:
2 Corinthians 10:5 KJV “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”
It clearly says you cannot have any thought that goes against God. Therefore every thought and every part of your life must be in line with the world view of Christianity. Every version of Christianity believes this scripture is the infallible word of God. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles (Those not of Jewish Descent).
What you are describing is an Evangelical way of life. I do not know ANYONE in my Catholic family or Baptist family that can just recite the bible off the top of their heads and my Baptist family is full of preachers. MOST Christians don’t even go to church every Sunday like they are supposed to anymore. It sounds like you came from an Evangelical church and you think that ALL churches are like that. They are not. That is one reason there are over 100 different denominations of Christianity. MOST Christians went to church just because that was how they were raised. But now most are lucky to go to church once a month and some only go twice a year; Easter and Christmas.
Yes, those Baptist preachers can recite scripture from memory. Baptist is evangelical. Let’s be clear:
A “Christian” is someone who believes Jesus is the son of God, believes his death and resurrection provide salvation and life to all believers, and believes the Bible is the infallible Word of God. If they don’t believe these things they are not a Christian. Just because a person goes to church doesn’t mean they are a christian.
I’m not saying all denominations have the exact same beliefs or opinions on every topic of the faith EXCEPT for this: They ALL believe the Bible is the infallible word of God and holy scripture, they ALL believe sin is disobedience God, and they ALL believe sinners go to hell when they die. There are NO EXCEPTIONS to this. Based on this, each true believer must submit themselves to God’s will or they are living in sin. Ask any minister in any denomination you like, including catholic. Those tenets are the foundation of Christianity. This isn’t just the evangelical way of life. The level of devoutness is irrelevant.
If they believe the Bible is the Word of God then they have accepted it as their world view and therein lies the madness. That prevents the mind from using logic and evidence based reason to determine the course of your life and submits to the Bible’s teachings.
), or Republican (
); they only care if you’re kind. My dad’s not churchy, considers himself a Christian, and doesn’t trust people who tell you right away and often that they are Christians. I think some Christians are closed-minded, while others believe in God, Jesus, and the message of his teachings. This doesn’t necessarily have to be mutually exclusive to critical thinking. Just like some scientists and Atheists are very closed-minded. I don’t really know what I’m saying anymore, so I’ll stop typing.