History a version of events Part 1 - 3

General Discussion General Chat
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It would appear that a surviving model of this practice is in modern India however at the time was alive in modern Pakistan, and Afghanistan. Hindi temples often will have vault of sorts. These vaults will be used for a collection for things like feeding the poor they give loans to a families entrepreneur. The will also collect for community actions. This model seems to mirror the early Jewish traditions around usury and banking. Also if they were traveling as traders they would have been exposed to idea of deposits. Networks of temples were often also used in an ancient ledger system via the silk road. One would avoid carrying coins with you to get robbed by depositing and later withdrawing said coins. Networks formed so these transactions wouldn’t necessarily happen in the same location, much like modern banking.

An observation I would like to make is that like financial industry in general can be too successful. What tends to happen like in India is the money taken in can never really be distributed effectively and ends up being horded. While this creates scarcity of the currency and can be considered necessary, this hording can easily slip into a systemic incompetence and malice in my opinion. These observations could likely be applied to Samaria as well.

The nature of gods.

My intention is to show in the final form that worship has social importance to the community, and limited personal importance. The limitation of your faith in part its ability to work is similar to a placebo effect.

There seems to be hidden civilizations (orders) among the historic record, they may still exist, and if so they cannot reveal themselves ethically. There also seems to be a product of the minimum a multi-diaspora evolution of our species after a post diluvial catastrophe. It is likely these events were separated by around 14,000- 40,000 years.

If you have a insight, please feel free to mention it. I am not the expert I am just attempting to balance expertise among disciplines.

Archetypical Philosophy:

When you begin this path you may believe this means to walk a balance between light and dark.

Many realize this path is a metaphor used to interoperate perception and a framing of consciousness.

You awaken when you realize that both life and death are very similar to sleeping and conscious engagement. This leads you to realize dreaming is a skill in both states of sleeping and consciousness. This then this allows you to discover that you can gain a new dimension of consciousness when you are able to unify the two. This is done in many manuals in both myths, philosophy cannon, and religions. Shamans, and witch doctors also found this truth through a sort of intuitive cultivation of intuition. Additional myths regarding gods, and the underworld also codify this perspective in text.

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The lays in mastering intention within dreaming, in both states of consciousness. This sounds wild to some, I have only anecdotal evidence for this if you discount myth, shamanic accounts, and religion. If you allow me to use religion, oral history, and myths there is a panacea that triangulates on this idea. Many with peculiar origin. The depth of sophistication of some culture while others civilizations seem to have adept skills, strikes me as odd. It is difficult to over state this point. For instance there was god in ancient Sumerian this god’s name is metal mouth. Metal mouth seems to have peculiar qualities that overlap them with our idea of an android. Understanding gods bringing things to people could just be part in parcel of independent invention. For instance the wheel seems to be independently invented by many cultures at roughly the same couple centuries.

At this point it is important to say I am not saying that this god is an alien, or a relic of some alien civilization. This actually thrusts on the central point to this line of thought. There is no real distinction if this was all conjured by imagination or if there was “alien” contact. However conversely there is evidence of galactic merger events within our solar system. This would render the line of thought interesting however still moot for most analysis. The reason why have quotes around alien in the sentence above is that this distinction seems central to this rational. The central point is we could be dealing with a mass hysteria or actual contact? If it is contact and they are a product of a merger event are they indeed “alien” to our solar system, or the product of a catastrophe? Either way gods or aliens it makes little difference.

Nearly always this argument leads to distinction without a difference. Weather these being(s) existed, or products of imagination they do exist in the historical record.

It would appear a trick academics play is they take opposing sides of a debate in which they appear to steak opposing claims, when in fact they are both correct in a narrow aspect. I consider this a function of reputation harvesting coupled with a marketing mechanic for the purpose of attracting funding. I don’t really hold it against them so much as they seem to be a product of their system.

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Here is a demonstration of the disconnect. If you look at western hold all arguments to the most evidence we can put under a single point. To that point ask academics where civilization started and opinions vary, Mesopotamia, according to DNA the Asiatic steppe by way of Africa?
 How does language fit well somehow the Polynesians were roughly 30,000 years ahead of everyone else. What do archeologist have to say? There are the Caucuses, and Turkey, don’t forget. So what we can say it is complicated, namely due to the fact defining a start of a civilization is difficult and parsing this against evidence becomes a large unwieldy argument between specialized experts. While each is adroit in their field largely not so much as they must account for information outside of their area of expertise.

DNA evidence shows Africa but even then the migration seems a bit odd. It splits heavy early out of Africa in Iraq some where. This then sends the migration straight down coastlines to south west Asian, and Australia. Aboriginal Australians migrated roughly 45,000–50,000 BC they had a 90km gap to cross over islands and open sea in their crossing. This means they must have had a ocean going vessels that could move across this gap.

So we have two possible solutions to this. Ancients were unable make ocean going craft at that point in our history. They may have had some sort of land, or ice crossing at one point. The other would be there were ocean craft back then. Perhaps ocean canoes with outriggers. This is the nature of academic evolution. They make authoritative assertions only to have to evolve them later as new evidence comes to light. You would think at some point they would get used to being forced to change their minds. Some to their credit do, however many become recalcitrant.

Pictograms, and Logograms predate language roughly by roughly 25,000 years, While language predates scripts, with one exception scripts show up roughly 5000 yag. The exception is cuneiform and limited evidence of it showing up around 1,400 years before other scripts start to emerge. According to some paralinguistic research this may have coincided with the boom in agriculture, and the end of prolific nomadic lifestyles. (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303256833_Art_Paleolithic)

If you look at Indian studies in the evolution of linguistics there is a bit of a problem. The oldest languages are very difficult to date. This is partly due to scripts rarely surviving. There are cultural, religious, and climate considerations as for why scripts were not produced, and if produced wouldn’t last would exist for a short time. Western educated scholars often disregard these factors due to the difficulty in parsing this information.

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This brings us to the richness found in Sandskrit vocabulary, diacritics in Prakrit and Pāli. They seem to originate in a written form from a proto-Brahmi script. These both are dated to roughly 3500 yag, 2300yag (Prakrit & Pāli) respectively. These three languages seem to have richness that other language lack in a similar era (Akkadian, written in Cuneiform not withstanding).

Many seem focused on a Turkey or Central steppe. This make sense with Turkey having very old excavation sites some (Karahan Tepe) dating to roughly 9.000–11,000 yag. These sites have yet to be excavated and will likely reveal much more in the coming years. West Java is also in this boat so to speak. A site called Gunung Padang is of potential interest, showing possible 14,000–27,000 yag. The site has particular interest do to linguistic overlaps in Brhami-tamil, and some Olmec native American scripts found in central America. These oldest surviving examples of these scripts are thought to be dated 2,500 yag.

Although shamanic oral traditions of the Toltec (Olmec influenced) place their coming to the planet as they frame it roughly 36,000 yag. Given our lack excavation of pyramids associated with these sites, coupled with there mathematical sophistication within a 13 base logarithmic calendar of our solar system (far more accurate and concise then ours current calendar given the absence of leap second, days, and years) I would defer to the Olmecs as likely being the oldest civilization to have existed on earth. My speculation is that it is very likely that the Minoan and Olmec civilizations are more closely related than we understand now.

The problem with that is we only really find Indus valley script which has yet to be broken. Arguments that this may have been a pictogram instead fits nicely with the aforementioned idea there was a rebuilding effort of several civilizations via in part the Indus Valley, Mesopotamia, and Turkey. I have published previous work in this area that augments these assertions.

Further conjecture I am asserting is held within Vedic languages. An amalgamation seems to have occurred. Vedic Sanskrit seems to be deep complexity is interesting especially considering the era. Perhaps a lost Dravidian language that they were both derived from accounts for this discrepancy. My speculation is this language was incorporated into Sanskrit during a catastrophe and was likely known as Devavāáč‡Ä« Sanskrit.

Vedic wisdom: Kalidasa tells in one of his poems “puraanam ityeva na saadhu sarvam
”, just because something is old it doesn’t make it good.

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This could possibly be known as Trilingua or three grammars similar to that found in ancient Greek. I speculate that trident could have been a symbol for these languages trilingua (modern preservation in Telugu). Devavāáč‡Ä« Sanskrit divine tongue, Sanskrit a cleric class tongue, and Prakrit a common tongue. Just to reiterate this is pure conjecture. As I understand interpolation models I would place nearly as much weight on this conjecture as some assumptions made based on evolutionary linguistics interpolation modeling. Current assumptions place outsized importance on script dating that I believe to be dubious rational.

Another way to look at trilingua is as follows: languages could be interpretation as resonance (music audible sounds), outward facing (common language), and Inward facing (cleric class language). The three eyes, another interpretation including god, or the third eye, then first eye observation, second eye depth. The finial conjecture that could also hold some truth is the Greek version pathos, logos, ethos.

When dealing with stories there is an attrition problem. Cultures in India, and South Asia have a much harder time preserving text do to climate materials available. Written text on plant material will degrade rapidly and we must account for this factor.

Praise knowledge (Rg Veda): This means you resonate and seek a path of knowledge. This to me could also literally mean vibrations and meditation with vibration of pineal gland. Perhaps a process of chants, hymns, song, ohm, curiosity, scrutinize, and surrender.

Contextual framing the dyadic relationship between the information and the modern language. The human to human vessel exchange orally is framed in an manor to pay homage to the power of a person being a vessel for wisdom. Some cultures consider ideas to be a living thing, in this frame a person that recites this story is a living vessel for this idea. In ancient Greek culture this person would have been called a rhapsode.

One way information is honored is to preserve accuracy. Accuracy is kept by preserving the context the information was given with context. This is the single biggest explanation for why many researchers prefer written words over oral traditions regarding information of the ancients. This is folly in my opinion in part you must triangulate on both oral traditions and written word with culture. This is due to the obvious lack of understanding in cultural framing, and if not understood will bias a reader. They will bring unwitting bias reading understanding into written documents that may not be there. While listening is similar, you may ask the speaker for context in some instances.

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One expression of this is to chant or recite mantra in a performance setting which may correspond to a ritual. To be fair many researchers do understand this very thing, and they attempt to bring a scientific rigor to their analysis. This is a great effort, however it would seem the critique is feared greatly by many consuming research. This clear bias toward written words, will manifest themselves in the published materials of these researchers when they articulate their conclusions.

The fundamental conclusion can be drawn from my argument here is two fold. First of which is accuracy of information isn’t degraded as many would imagine in oral tradition when compared against written documents. This would be due to the second lair of data through a performance and setting. A certain preservation of culture it was author originally intended. The second would be the possibility for changes to occur in the actual selection of words, while this wouldn’t be faithful to its origin. It may in fact be more faithful to the original intent of the author through the performer adopting terminology as language evolves. Some Vedic Brahmin traditions have never written down the Vedas they preform. In fact they would find the idea of attempting to preserve there information in writing silly.

I will also note that translations are often vectors for huge losses of information when understanding written documents.

The paradox surrounding gods seems to be that manifestations of worship can take many forms. Polytheism, religious tolerance, (not only for religions, but within religions for other religions).

and rituals offerings as indication of social tolerance. These offerings of tolerance, communal sacrifice in framing manifest tolerance within the broader community. There is an opportunity cost, to allowing them in that conformity is lost. I would argue this loss of conformity is often a something that propels social cohesion. This cohesion can be unhealthy however it is very possible that some rituals, and sacrifices become fixated in violence. This would be an example of fixation of tolerance without proper ethos, core values, or ahiáčƒsā.

Polytheism cultural tolerance for religion, and ritual seem to show a healthy culture, however they must be grounded in proper philosophy (core beliefs). This ideal of love, and non-violence are paramount among them.

Ritual, sacrifice, tolerance, and core beliefs seem to be the basis of healing a community.

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Polynesians concept of Ho’ Oponopono (to make right more right) while there has been an effort for well meaning western educated researchers to edit and proliferate this process. The core of it is really very simple. It is about reconciliation. The process revolves around a community recognizing a wrong or ill will (contempt) entities, groups, or individuals have among one another. The next step is about talking, communication around these grievances guided by third parties mutually respected. They guide the communication away from accusation, further damage, to casting light on the pain caused by the fracture between the parties. The final stage is to talk about ways to bring the parties back together in order to heal, the community observes this process. A plan is made enforced by the community and the respected parties, the final stage is a feast where the parties show they have began a path to let go of the pain in reconciliation. Allowing for a way of healing to begin.

One key factor in reconciliation I would bring up is one discussed by J. Krishnamurti. The idea of categorization used in control. Sometimes parties will not allow a natural order to categorizations, in this way they impose definition without deference. If this is coupled with a fixation on categorization this party will be unable to let things go in the final step of reconciliation. Allowing their needs to control become paramount to the communities need for healing.

Rituals, sacrifice, and communal healing seem to be linked with one another.

Death has a powerful cleansing effect. Introspection and the honor of your inner self and your family, and heritage.

What the great civilizations understand (in ways surpassing ours) collectively that we don’t, is the solution to obtain enlightenment as an individual isn’t a solution to create conditions for collective enlightenment. This comes from a virtuous society, seeking knowledge as a pleasure, and well placed core beliefs.

I am not suggesting that there is research to backup certain aspects of mysticism, sacrifice, and religion.

Pilgrimages help promote travel while travel usually expands ones understanding a pilgrimage may not. When your able to travel in a ritualized fashion you must also have, intention, and core beliefs that aid your intellectual journey.

When ritual is coupled with sacrifice a power of intention without constriction and control (core beliefs) the most dangerous aspects of our society can rise. Also the essence of our highest expression could also rise both within a person, and as a society. How it manifests would depend on what are your beliefs are collectively. Many great conclusions can be reached by individuals rapidly if they utilized a mechanism collectively that is a power, and flaw of many religious customs. This is also why it is best to allow cooler heads to prevail in communities, similar to a allowing for a collective sleep pattern.

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Meaning that at the heart of both methods of gaining insight (collectively / individually) is the fact you must hold the relationship between object of study above the framing you bring to this data. To put another way if you find anomalous data you must explain it with either that belongs or offer rational of why it is this way.

This may be applied to the areas I have discussed previously.

All language seems to have originated from Polynesian. The origin of civilization seems to be a much harder question to answer. This due to multiple civilizations advancing across the globe at roughly the same time. Along with rises and falls of civilizations, and inherit complications of define what constitutes a civilization there are further complexities. Delta growth of civilization sometimes has great booms in technology. This growth seems to be associated with gods. Weather the gods bring them the technology or new gods manifest along with booms of technology the final result seem the same.

One of the best examples of this is Sumer. This would be known as Uruk Phenomenon (Period) in Mesopotamia. This is then triangulated by their art and indeed art across the world, use search term, “ancient handbag motif” new gods seem to corollate with new technology.

Cycles seem to define growth and collapse within many of our systems, the entropy of evolution so to speak.

An inner field with polarity for both masculinity and feminine is the framing we use to understand this experience.

Could gods be an advanced civilization, or a manifestation of cultural growing rapidly. It would appear there is evidence for both. Time will reveal the truth of this matter.

I will conclude with an understanding of our solar system. My final thanks to Jude Currivan, she expanded my understanding of cosmology greatly. As far as I know she doesn’t hold the my views on our solar system. Her framing of cosmology has helped me grasp complexities held within.

Our solar system was the product of two major accretion events one the well known disk formation. The second was when another solar system was consumed by our own. This solar system for a time made us a binary system. The sun of Jupiter known as Tiamat was a brown dwarf that brought with a calamity and moons and planets that were not part of our solar system post accretion disk formation.

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Gaia or pre-earth was destroyed evidenced by the debris field between Mars and Jupiter. Further evidenced by 2 planets with highly erratic qualities in that of Uranus and Venus. Venus the product of Tiamat’s final approach evidence and falsely labeled as a comet Halley’s Comet. Not a comet but a product of tidal forces Tiamat and moons pushed / pulled upon pre-Earth Gaia. The moons of both “planets” have been drastically influenced by these events. As Venus peculiar orbit. Uranus isn’t terrestrial to our solar system, evidenced by its moons, and peculiar axial tilt. The final evidence is the missing planet we seem to pretend does or “doesn’t” exist.

This refugee crisis spawned us (modern humans) and our predicament (epigenetic social hysteria). Furthermore evidenced in repopulation efforts in Egypt, Anatolia, Yellow River, Java peninsula, Indus Valley, Mesopotamia, Himalaya Mountains, and Chilean Mountains . What I convey is the tip of the iceberg, once you understand this frame the evidence is a litany.

It is in all places, geological, occult, religion, philosophy, literature, Milkyway galaxy. The Milkyway is in six mergers with other celestial groups. As stated above this is evidenced by the Milkyway containing stars that are older than itself. This galactic dance is the source of the accretion events. The last two merger events were with a Magellanic cluster and the most recent with the Sagittarius Dwarf B cluster.

This calamity likely brought three advanced civilizations together however only two seem to aware of this dynamic until it was concluded. I say that because this product of chance, luck, or fate created the human race as we know it today.

This is why the Fermi paradox cannot be solved, it would seem the paradox is born of a false framing of our reality.

I hope everyone enjoyed the history I put forth. Please love one another, and practice a life of non-violence.

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I posed a while ago in a thread ‘progressive think thanks’ What about a progressive think-tanks? - #43 by enduser

There is a video I made that shows an organizational model I suspect is a great direction for actionable steps.

The problem always seem to revolve around ethos, and the core values of the group. I think based on my experience I was wrong about this being a place where that type of work could happen.

It appears when you have profit motive, and peoples paychecks are on the line so to speak, core values can’t really stand up to that pressure.

That is why these posts exist and I haven’t made anymore effort to fill out the progressive think tank post with the detail it would need to create a working model.

Without the ethos, and culture you really have nothing. So this is where we sit. Perhaps this culture will change. Perhaps this isn’t the right place for this sort of effort.

Acting as a guide only works when reciprocation was involved. I have only really been met with a few kind hearts, but mostly with paranoia, hostility, and suspicion. With that as the basis of your culture you will never have anything great.

So if you would like to have a golden era, if you would like a grassroots movement / and independent media catalyzing change. Read my post, the ethos is there. You may begin the inner work of understanding how to proliferate through your actions with these ideas, and in that way the culture you touch will soften.

What I understand is the culture collectively is not, and was not there to accept what I was offering. Perhaps it will evolve and I will reattempt to guide the organizational structure that would be necessary.

Until there is a place where the payroll doesn’t supersede the culture I fear that place doesn’t exist yet. Those efforts will be subverted for malign purposes. I don’t wish to be part of that sort of movement.

Good luck to you.