Ok. I’d like an honest opinion here. Did I go too far?
I had a discussion over text with a friend who is conservative and I hold dear and let’s just say he is not happy with politics and wants to vote for Trump. I respect the opinion but was disappointed as Trump had his chance and we saw the outrageous outcome of it. Me pleading for him to see the folly of supporting Trump and trying to state my case against Trump got me called a Liberal Leftist. Which in turn I said “ok. Define what you just called me” to which the answer was silence. I proceeded to say “ you see? This is what’s wrong with this country!!! We are using terminology against one another thinking it’s an insult without even knowing what they mean. We just repeat what we hear others say and allow these so called republicans to divide us.”
After the guy LOOKED up the meaning I went into lecture mode:
Ok thank you so in short you’re telling me the left stands for freedom while the right stands for government intervention. Got it. Thank you.
Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on “ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism” while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on “notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism”.
Since we are going to start placing people in a category or like I like to call it a box…. Let’s explore what these labels mean…
Republican- one relating to primarily associated with business, financial, and some agricultural interests and is held to favor a RESTRICTED governmental role in economic life.
Today’s Republican Party does not fall under this as the MAGA take over of the party has changed it and is now leaning towards White Christian nationalism. Keep in mind there has always been a separation of church and state in this country.
Conservatism- the holding of political views that favor free enterprise, private ownership, and socially traditional ideas.
SOCIALLY TRADITIONAL IDEAS… obviously this is part of the Republican beliefs and they have completely abandoned these ideas in trying to consolidate power for their own means. They raise money from large corporations and instead of making laws to benefit the people they make laws to benefit corporations and the rich.
Democrat: an adherent of democracy one who practices social equality evolving in the early 19th century from the anti-federalists and the Democratic-Republican party and associated in modern times with policies of broad social reform and internationalism.
this is an interesting one as the democrats have also been guilty of taking corporate money calling themselves moderate trying to appeal to both sides. When they try to do something for the people they are stopped by the opposition and the people are held political hostages until both sides get what they want.
Liberalism- Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law.
these are the principles this country was formed on when gaining independence from a KING. We have yet to see a true government like this.
Communism- a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed …
The world has yet to see a true government like this.
today countries that claim communism have turned to a TOTALITARIAN system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production
Authoritarian- of, relating to, or favoring blind submission to authority relating to, or favoring a concentration of power in a leader or an elite NOT CONSTITUTIONALLY responsible to the people.
Trump and his followers Desire this as evident from their extreme project 2025 play book. It strips rights and consolidates power and he has stated we wants to get rid of the constitution.
Fascist- a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Trump’s love of power and respect for people like PUTIN, XI, and UN and his desire to be like them have shown clearly that he falls under this category.
Dictatorship- a form of government in which absolute power is concentrated in a dictator or a small group
this is self explanatory and what you have in many countries today that CLAIM TO BE something else like communist or socialist for example.
Nationalist- an advocate of or believer in nationalism, a member of a political party or group advocating national independence or strong national government
Independent- one that is not bound by or definitively committed to a political party.
As we can see there is nothing wrong with being republican, conservative, democrat, or liberal. There is definitely nothing wrong with being a socialist or a communist. They are very sound political ideologies and are not insults but are ideologies that have not been seen through to their fullest potential. Unfortunately the authoritarian fascists who happen to be White Christian racist nationalist have INFILTRATED the Republican Party and have fooled those who believe in conservatism. What has happened to separation of church and state? Why do I need “white” racist people telling me what Ideology or religion I need to teach my children? Why do we want our medical rights invaded, overseen and controlled by these people?
I have taught my kids about what I learned from my Saturday morning cartoons making note of the educational music videos educating us and promoting “The great American melting pot” (schoolhouse rock) and how unity and togetherness was infectious and spread.
People are starting to see through this and it’s about time. Trump got voted out once and God willing he and his power hungry people will be kept out in November.
I told him I’m really trying hard to help you understand but if you won’t listen I can’t help. They use fear to control you because you don’t know. That’s why they want to ban books!!!
The left… the right… they are the two wings of the same damn bird which is our country. The sooner we recognize the corruption that has blinded and divided the nation the sooner we can start living under our true ideologies without insult, racism, and true equality.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America “
That is the preamble to our constitution. This is what the founding fathers of our nation had played out for us. We have moved so far from this to where we are on the brink of an authoritarian government if Trump wins… He has already expressed interest in getting rid of our constitution. The laws that govern our nation. The supreme has ruled a president has presidential immunity. No where in the constitution does it state that!!! Why would we continue to support it?
And don’t get me started on these immigrants that say they are republicans when they don’t know what it means…
They come from dictator ran countries because dictators tricked them saying they will be socialists and fix the country. They lie about being socialist and become dictators. So these immigrants hear socialism here in the United States and they get scared but they liked it enough back home to let some a$$hole take over their country. They like it here in the US where we have teachers, Police, firefighters, military, social security retirement, and in case you get hurt and can’t work anymore disability insurance, which are social programs and socialism at its best right?!? Its ridiculous!!!
We are looking to become a third world country if Trump becomes president much like Cuba or Venezuela. They already started with the crooked Supreme Court doing nonsense when more than half are corrupt themselves appointed by Trump just like the Venezuelan supreme court ratifying Maduro’s (who is a DICTATOR hiding behind the title of President) election results.
Then he came back and said you’re an independent. Why do you care. You already said you don’t care about any of them.
I said it’s not that I don’t care. My problem is I care too much!!! The American political parties have moved away from what they were meant to represent which is why I don’t subscribe to their nonsense the way they have lied to us to steal and misappropriate our money (taxes.)
I do look at the most qualified person for the job. Both parties have turned me off and unfortunately there are no other viable options. This Republican Party isn’t conservative anymore unfortunately. They are fascist/ authoritarian.
I finally said listen, at the end of the day I’m an independent that votes for the most qualified person and I will not allow my vote to support the take over of this country by a do nothing, all for himself convicted FELON who cares nothing for more than getting rich with taxpayer money, is a foreign asset that disrespects our military and wanting the power to control it.
This conversation happened when it was still Biden vs Trump.
Sounds to me like you nailed it. When he tried to “otherize” you, you disarmed him by not taking the bait. Instead, you asked him to explain his position. As they say, people don’t argue with their own data. You asked him to define his, and he was unable to do so. That gave you the opportunity to educate him. You also informed him that both parties had abandoned their core principles. You didn’t side with either of them. That opened him up to hear what you had to say. You gave him a lot to think about, but it sounds like you did it without judgement. Well done! The ball is in his court now.
You did not go too far, and you are right, but your interaction highlights how the problem with captured representation is being hidden by exacerbating partisan politics.
This also affects us in a very tangible way, because conservatives, as you yourself has pointed out believe in
Due to the conservative leader’s authority, it is the duty for the conservative to accept and internalize the leader’s message, regardless of whether or not the conservative understands the message or not.
You may have educated him to some degree, but until you can get him to disregard the authority he has placed himself under, you likely alienated him by revealing yourself as an “evil temptor and seducer”.
As demonstrated by conservatives clinging tightly to Trump as “Supreme Leader” (an exageration, but a reasonable label according to how conservatives treat him), Trump can do anything, even go against so-called conservative values AND break the law without significantly affecting the fervor and loyalty of his following.
It is only when a conservative realizes that Trump is not the “Chosen One” (another thematic exageration for iillustrative purpose) that the conservative can reject Trump as the “Supreme Leader”. Even when a conservative can do this, they can often be bullied into falling back into line, which explains why many conservatives must abandon conservative values and beliefs before they can wholly reject Trump.
Until the majority of conservatives reject Trump in general, Trump will retain his grip on the Republican party, because he retains his authority. When you hear from your friend again, you will likely have to continue as you have been, reeducating him as you go, risking that you might lose this friend permanently if his conservative peers convince him to forsake you as a friend.
@eagle1
You can aid your goal in this with media showing how conservatives have rejected Trump and/or the Republican party, and/or conservative values and beliefs. If he is a Christian, you can give him a copy of my book “The Reasonable Bible”, which will help him reject harmful evangelical and/or fundamental christian beliefs in favor of rational religious thought and belief.
This situation highlights the divisive power of today’s Republican Party as republicans get upset when they can’t prove their point with facts and you can. It’s unfortunate that a friendship has to end because of the brainwashing that has been going on for years with the lies.
I definitely don’t think you went too far. It sounds like your intent was to show your friend the truth and I respect that. We’re dealing with issues in politics that go far beyond Left vs Right, or Republican vs Democrat. We’re dealing with our country’s continued support and denial of a genocide that we can see unfolding before our eyes, blatant and institutionalized racism that leads to inequity and literal murder, and the life-threatening realities of the Christian Nationalist’s specific and cruel forms of sexism and LGBTQ+ attacks. These are the kinds of issues over which it is nearly impossible not to lose friends because the Republican Party has allowed MAGA to take away the grey area. So, no, you absolutely did not go too far.
Thank you drea_m_r_76. You’re absolutely right. Sometimes it feels like the old adage “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.” It saddens me to see in real time the change in expression and mood, The frustration and hostility exhibited when they can’t factually back up what they say is dumbfounding. I try to stay calm and tell them don’t believe what they say, believe what they do and fact check them to no avail.
I hear you, it’s beyond frustrating! Sometimes, I want to just shake some people and say, “I know you’re at least a halfway intelligent person; why do you refuse to see what’s right in front of you?!” Obviously, I would never do that, and I know that’s the exact opposite of what I would need to do, but it’s hard. Perhaps especially when it’s someone who is close to you or that you care about. I just try to remember that believing in Trump or MAGA is typically an emotional response that requires genuine understanding, trying to find some common ground, and usually a hell of a lot of time. This is an old article, but I think it still says a lot of poignant things.