The fucking NEO-NAZIS WERE RIGHT ABOUT ISRAEL!! Now, before you get your underwear in a massive bunch, I am not advocating for Neo Nazis. Of course NN’s are actual psychopaths and OF COURSE (CENK) they extend the hate for the ACTIONS of the Nation State of Israel to all Jews. OF COURSE that is not just immoral, but its dumb. We all know this, but they told us for decades the “Jews” control media, banking and government. Well I, for one, dismissed that idea out of hand as absurd. Well, maybe I am missing something, but they sure as fuck seem to do all of that and more. I dont really have a larger point here, but I havent heard one legitimate talking head even mention this and it started to bug me. Only the “left” recognizes the current Nation State of Israel for what they actually are, so this would have to come from the left. What bugs me is how afraid Progressives are to even mention this because the brand blowback would be substantial. I do know this much, what Israel is doing, will have a very negative impact on Jews around the world.
Of course it’s a great historical irony that the current State of Israel has adopted an inverse yet analogously symmetric model of Nazi racial precedence…
I disagree, brother. Media, banking and government are controlled by rich, powerful, and corrupt elites. Some are Jewish, most are not. Nobody owns more media then Rupert Murdoch. He is not Jewish. Nor is Elon Musk. Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan Chase, is not Jewish. Nor are the heads of Bank of America, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, etc. The CEO of AIPAC is Jewish, but AIPAC is only part of the equation. The conservative Christian movement plays a huge role as well. And let’s not forget Big Oil, Big Pharma, etc. They have huge influence over what get’s broadcast, and what does not.
Who said “Jewish”? I said ISRAEL…
Well, to that I would ask; who controls them - Murdoch, Dimon, etc ? Up until very recently I would have agreed with your point. However, in light of the Epstein stuff, I’m gonna double down on it being Israel. Real power does not want you to know its name. The people you mentioned are mostly power slaves and some plain sociopaths, but they all work for Israel. Israel has ubiquitously infiltrated our politics, military and media. This is not a conspiracy theory, but rather a very plain fact. Mosad targeted rich and powerful people for the Epstein program, on purpose. Again, until recently I would have said the same thing you did. Now, it appears undeniably true!
Stealing “analogously symmetric”!!! Just fyi…
I’m not disagreeing that the government of Israel has a huge role in influencing our society, even more than other foreign nations do. What I am saying is that the Israeli government is not the same thing as “The Jews”. It is a foreign government acting in it’s own interests, often to our detriment. I your initial post, you said you used to dismiss the idea that “Jews” control media, banking and government, but now you accept it. If I were an ordinary Jewish person reading that post, it would make me more likely to believe the ADL’s claim that criticism of the government of Israel is actually antisemitism.
“…tonymac52
I’m not disagreeing that the government of Israel has a huge role in influencing our society, even more than other foreign nations do. What I am saying is that the Israeli government is not the same thing as “The Jews”…”
Tony, thanks for trying to say something about this. I am of the view that Russrcaldwell2’s original post, and its conflation of Israel and “The Jews” , is blatantly anti-semitic. I have flagged it to TYT moderators and we’ll see if they do anything about it.
I’m thinking you didn’t read my original post. Help me understand exactly how my initial post was "anti-Semitic. Be specific please as I’m kinda slow. Thanks!!
Let me be clear. I don’t think it was intentionally anti-semitic. I think you were a bit careless in your wording. In one sentence you said we were told that “the Jews” control media, etc. In the next sentence you said “They sure as fuck seem to do all of that.” I assume you mean the nation of Israel, but someone else could reasonably come to a different conclusion.
Also, the Neo-Nazis were NOT right about Israel. As you said yourself, they conflate Israel with all Jews. So starting your post with that sentence almost guarantees that at least some people who read it are going to see it as anti-semitic, despite your best intentions. You go on to denounce Neo-Nazis, but then you undercut that by saying what I pointed out in my first paragraph.
I thought, “Maybe I’m nit-picking his choice of words too much”, so I asked my wife to read your post. She saw what I saw. And no, you are not slow by any means. You simply haven’t grown up as part of a marginalized community, so you haven’t had to develop the same level of understanding about such things. Ask yourself this: What is the value in that first line? Sure it grabs the attention, but does it undermine the point I was trying to get accross?
I look at it a different way, brother. I have interacted with @Russrcaldwell2 frequently over the past 2 1/2 years. In no way do I view him as bigoted in any fashion. In fact, I’ve seen how angry he gets when he sees bigoted behavior in others.
Growing up as the only black kid in a white neighbor in the early 1960s, I wish more of my neighbors and schoolmates were like him. I feel like, if someone tried to belittle or bully me, he would have had my back.He was trying to make a point about the nation of Israel, and used some unfortunate language that could easily be perceived as anti-semitic. That’s it. No more, no less.
Thank you my friend and I did all I could to be very specific regarding the actions of the Nation State and “jews”. As for the idea that I am bigoted, please trust me T, I am definitely invited to the barbeque. I have always despised bullies, regardless of their perverse justifications. When given the chance, bullying a bully gives me great satisfaction. I, very much, doubt that Cenk and company will flag the post, but if they do I can live with that. I did state, in my original post that, I didnt have a larger point, but thats not entirely true. I kinda figured, if anyone looked at the post, it would illicit the urge to flag or ban it. It is exactly that “hall monitor” vibe we Progressives frequently tend to project, that turns off huge swaths of America. Huge, heavily armed, swaths of America that we will need, if we are going to survive what is coming. Trump is flat our trapped in Iran and that conflict is, clearly, the match that lights the fire.
Hi russrcaldwell2:
you wrote:
I’m thinking you didn’t read my original post. Help me understand exactly how my initial post was "anti-Semitic. Be specific please as I’m kinda slow. Thanks!!
This is the stand-out offending passage:
“…We all know this, but they told us for decades the “Jews” control media, banking and government. Well I, for one, dismissed that idea out of hand as absurd. Well, maybe I am missing something, but they sure as fuck seem to do all of that and more…”
The use of quotation marks around “Jews” makes your meaning ambiguous, but there is no room for ambiguity here. So,
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If you want to accuse the state of Israel of controlling media, banking and government, then do so. This is so broad-brush that I have to disagree with it, but it is not (quite) the blatantly anti-semitic path.
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If, instead, you want to accuse Jews, in general, of controlling media, banking and government, then this would be not only untrue, but blatantly anti-semitic, but at least you will be clear about it and TYT can decide if it wants to be a place that hosts such discussions.
Please also note:
As we all watch the slow-walked sadistic deliberate mass-murder of defenseless civilians unfold in Gaza, we should all be clear as to whether we are talking about “Jews” or “Israel”… this is important to whether we are discussing the situation rationally or not. The hosts of TYT are very careful about this, knowing that no matter what happens they will be falsely accused of anti-Semitism for criticizing Israel, but knowing that in fact they are on the side of all human beings who behave in a civil fashion and not in the murderous way that Israel is behaving as a state. I admire this aspect of the tyt hosts.
Again, did you really read the post? When I say “of course extending the actions of the nation state to all Jews is immoral and dumb”, what do you think I mean? Let me ask you this question. Lets say Russia was doing everything Israel has done and is doing. In that timeline, if I said the Russians are controlling our government, would you tell me to stop saying “The Russians” have infiltrated our government? No one would care one fucking bit about anti-Russian sentiment. If this were Brazil doing this and I said the Brazilians have infiltrated our government, would you tell me to stop? No you wouldnt, but if its Israel we have to watch our language and we cant just tell the obvious truth. Who lives in Israel and runs Israel? Is it Mexicans? Its an ethno-religious state populated by Jewish people. Public polling shows the populaton is hugely supportive of what their government is doing. Of course holding random Jewish people responsible for the actions of the Jews in Israel is irrational and immoral. I am tired of tiptoeing around fucking words man. Extending this special protection and courtesy has us in this position. As for what THE NATION STATE OF ISRAEL AND ITS HUGELY SUPPORTIVE POPULACE controls, you have to be kidding. Day after day TYT produces truck loads of receipts as to what Israel controls. That is what we can prove and see. Imagine what else might be happening, that we cant see.
Excerpts from my original post:
That isnt clear enough? Do you understand this moment in time, at all? This sensitivity toward precious Israel is going to get us all killed!!! I do not just hate Jews dude, fuck!! That is clearly a horrible world view and individuals will do individual shit. Collective punishment is barbaric and I wholeheartedly fight the ideas behind Neo Nazi nonsense. Jesus dude, pay attention!! We dont have to tip toe through the bullshit anymore.
Yes, I read your post, several times. In your response above, you managed to avoid addressing the matter of the blatantly anti-semitic passage that you have managed to put onto this board for nearly two weeks now, and have chosen not to go back and edit. Your choice not to do that simple clearly needed thing is noted.
I would add:
You’re not wrong about some things here, in my opinion. Yes, Israel is doing terrible things, as documented capably by TYT and others, yes, the population of Israel is largely Jewish and a portion of those very supportive of the government’s actions. In my opinion, it would have been fair to say that, (_on the issue of Israel and Middle Eastern Politics_), a decent portion (hard to say how much) of Jewish Israelis, and a portion of Jews from around the world who are supportive of present Israeli actions, are successfully controlling too much of what is said and done in US policy, media and finance. This is not nearly the broad-brush statement that you’ve improperly made, but is something that could perhaps be defended. One of the requirements for defending it would be, I think, to point out the massive rift within the Jewish community over these issues. It is not just a matter of a few members of the community here and there who actively oppose Israel’s slow-walk mass-murder policies. It is a very large portion of Jewish people outside of Israel, though I don’t know the numbers offhand. I’ll try to look for some numbers, they might help the conversation.
Again, who lives in and controls Israel? Is it Mexicans, Ukranians, French? No, I am not editing that post and that IS the point. I always change my mind when new information presents itself. Change my mind and tell what me what ethno religious group lives in and controls Israel, if not Jewish peoples? My refusal to change that post is “NOTED”? WTF does that mean? Do you really think I give a shit if you note that post or not? Are you IDF, Mosad? I fully stand by everything Ive said and how I said it. That IS THE POINT!! You have the wrong guy, if you think noting my post means anything I dont hide behind an online handle and my picture is included. That is me and I am not afraid of notes, flags, or any effort to cancel me. I could not have been more clear when I said that extending the actions of the current nation state of Israel to all Jews is immoral and dumb. I clearly stated that Neo Nazis are psychopaths. I am stating a plain fact that Jews comprise Israel and its Naziesque, homicidal government. Its not anyone else, is it?
What I meant by “noted” is simply that:
a) I have to decide whether to rescind my request to TYT moderators to remove the post. (They have left the post up anyway, so that part is possibly moot).
b) I have to decide whether to continue to engage with you, about anything, given your belligerence.
Setting aside the above for a moment, It would not have been an entirely bad topic if approached with thoughtful wording that did not needlessly evoke a classic bigoted whistle-call. I did see that you appeared to make some strong effort to voice your antipathy to the bigots. Then unfortunately you next worded things so improperly that something has to be said.
I suppose it is fair to try to discuss which groups have how much outsized influence, proportional to their numbers, over which issues. Some Jews, both in Israel and outside of Israel, have been among those who have contributed mightily to Israel’s worst policies.
It is not an entirely easy matter to get an accounting of the percentage of Jews in Israel who support mass-murder and inhumane treatment (under false pretext of prosecuting a war) of defenseless civilians. I spent some time last year trying to learn more about Israeli elections and system, and, as with the US, but perhaps moreso, it is not enough to just have a majority of voters loosely agreeing on certain things.
Hi, to the admins:
I want to rescind my request to remove this thread due to what I believe to be an anti-semitic statement included in the original post. I personally think we’ve managed to salvage enough productive conversation, and the original poster has managed to make enough decent points, that it might be best to let the conversation stand and see if anything good comes of it.
I get that you may not have been inclined to act on my request anyway, or that others may have different views. However, I don’t see the right pathway just to rescind my own personal request, so I’m posting it here, and will follow up by message to the moderators.
Thank you for that. I will defend Jewish people with my last breath, provided they denounce what Israel is doing. I even understand, on some level, what happened to Israel. The trauma of the holocaust has echoed down through generations and made the general Israeli public susceptible to the ultra radical Zionist propaganda, put forth by the Israeli government. Ill go a step further and say that I am not certain that I would NOT be a radical Zionist, if I was a Jewish man living in Israel. I like to think I would not go along, but I would be a liar if I said I would definitely not. What happened to them is, literally, evil. That level of horrific, barbic, souless treatment would change anyone. Get them before they get us because they all hate us, might make sense if my bloodline had been so severely mistreated. Again, thank you for saying this and please know I would never advocate for collectively punishing anyone or group. .