Exactly! Critiquing is easy; engaging is hard. Instead of just dismissing the naysayers, let’s challenge them constructively: What does progress look like to you? How can we work toward it together? If we can redirect frustration into action, we’ll build momentum. Progress isn’t about perfection—it’s about everyone contributing, even if it’s messy.
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Who saw this from UNFTR?
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I generally watch on youtube on my tv, via roku, not on my laptop, and I never was able to see this episode on my TV (I think it just displayed the TYT logo which is what I get when I try to watch some members-only videos). Since my paid membership seems to be more dialed in to my online laptop access, I had to watch this on my laptop. As to accessing the video, while my difficulties are probably my own fault (I just do not get along with technology very well) I do suggest TYT check this video and make sure that in fact that it is accessible to everyone, not just to members, if that’s what they want. This will help (I think) to get the word to those who have been criticizing Ana and Cenk as to how they respond.
As to the content, which I did eventually watch on my laptop, I hope to compose my thoughts in a separate thread, but it was pretty good considering the difficulty of addressing the criticisms coming from so many quarters. I do want to say that it is inherently difficult to navigate the hysteria, hostility, intellectual bankruptcy, trolling, and moral issues, both on the right, the left, in other quarters, and in some cases, in our selves, and the reaction of many to such a difficult navigation task is to just repair to some dumbed-down over-simplified world view of right and left and that’s that. So, to the extent that Ana and Cenk are engaging in honest exploration, I’d say they’re choosing the hard but good way. I don’t want them to turn to just some facile political notions. I can get those on any channel.
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Amen!
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The phrasing “experiences and strategies for addressing these critics constructively” is superfluous. Cenk’s eyes have overwhelmingly remained laser-focused on the proverbial prize. For example, Cenk champions getting $ out of politics. He started WolfPAC, after all. He indefatigably synthesizes the Constitutional protocol for initiating in the states an Amendment getting $ out of politics (and codifying the factual construct only people are, well, people). Now, any rational thinker hearing this proposal understands the successful campaign to get $ out politics through the states requires legislatures comprised of both Rs and Ds, in both Red and Blue states, to vote for the Amendment. But Cenk usually reminds his audience, anyway, the Amendment will not pass with the support of only Blue States. In other words; Cenk’s raison d’etre has always been, identify the Progressive policy goal and then choose the path most likely to get you to that goal. In this way, Cenk reveals he is a ‘systems’ person. That is, confronted with a common societal problem, he has the uncommon and innate ability to ‘see’ the big picture, both identifying the underlying causation and configuring resolution. And he seemingly undergoes this process almost instantly, certainly 10 steps ahead of everyone else. I know because, I am a systems person, too. So, given my life experiences, speaking only about Cenk’s good-faith critics; I want to posit the reason he encounters so much resistance to his brilliant work. 1) Cenk is a ‘systems’ person whereas his critics are not. Furthermore, failing to grasp that his brain naturally works differently from their brains, they tend to ascribe negative motivations to what they can only perceive are his ‘snap judgments’ and egotistical certainties. In other words, they are overly focused on Cenk’s style and not on his substance. 2) Cenk is justifiably so focused on implementing the ‘fix’ he has conjured that he is insufficiently focused on the fact, most of his good faith critics are not ‘big thinkers’ like he is. They get frustrated when he zooms ahead and he gets frustrated when they cannot catch up. A solution: Cenk could devote a line or two out of each on-line appearance just to explain to the audience how he thinks.
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Spot on! With my Lean Six Sigma and ADKAR background, I often forget how systems thinking can overwhelm those unfamiliar with it. (I get the irony.) A quick explanation of Cenk’s process could really bridge the gap for those outside the TYT bubble. Thanks for framing this so clearly!
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Such a major problem in our society… 1) assuming (without due thought) someone’s argument is wrong and then 2) jumping straight to making personal accusations… Is this best descried as ad homenim, or would it be accurate to describe with a different fallacy concept, or perhaps something else?
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I actually think it is not the further left that is the problem. The problem with infighting on the Dem side is from the most conservative of the Dems the Biden Hillary 3rd way blue dogs and Joe Manchin s and Kristin Sinema’s that resist any and all progressive / populist improvements and instead defend corporate greed, especially those that do not even realize it, like my parents.
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I hear your frustration, @amyns, and I agree that conservative Democrats like Manchin and Sinema often act as significant barriers to progress, defending corporate interests and blocking populist or progressive improvements. But I also think it’s important to address how extremism—on either side of the spectrum—undermines our collective goals.
Maximalism in any context is unproductive. Whether it’s conservative Dems refusing to embrace meaningful change or some on the far left demanding ideological purity at the expense of coalition-building, both dynamics fracture movements and play into the hands of the real enemy: plutocrats and oligarchs. They thrive on this disunity, keeping us distracted with infighting while they hoard resources and tighten their control.
The bigger challenge is finding a way to balance bold, transformative ideas with pragmatic steps that bring people together. How can we break out of this cycle and refocus our energy on dismantling the systems of power that perpetuate inequality?
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Bernie is not an extremist and yet at election time, media helps establishment candidates conflate extremists with basic economic populism views.
Anyone on the broad spectrum of the left should keep their focus on corporate control of media and politics. That is the problem.
The extremists on the left are the ones defending corporate control.
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I’m watching this tonight (or possibly tomorrow)!
Bernie is not an extremist and yet at election time, media helps establishment candidates conflate extremists with basic economic populism views.
Anyone on the broad spectrum of the left should keep their focus on corporate control of media and politics. That is the problem.
The extremists on the left are the ones defending corporate control.
Extremism is not necessarily antithetical to populism, IMO. It can be a good or bad thing.
I see Bernie as close to being extremist (or at least radical) in at least one classic vernacular important sense. He is very “socialist” (for want of a better word). This word is not only mine, but for awhile I think it was his (I don’t know if he self-identifies that way these days though). My definition here of socialism is a take-from-the-rich give-to-the-poor Robin Hood approach to government, and I do see it as somewhat extremist or at least radical, though that, in itself does not make it good or bad.
Separate-but-related:
I admire Sanders for being very up-front and honest with himself and others as to what he is going for, and I do agree with him on some issues. I understand that many here are supportive of him on issues where I would not be (though I would certainly vote for him over Trump any day of the week… Sanders does not seek to undermine the rule of law and is generally of much higher character suitable to the office).
Regardless of the hot-button word “socialism”, I realize that many here would see Sanders’ approach to government as not at all extremist and (further) that many here would be supportive of it. I don’t want to engage in disagreement for its own sake, but I do think it’s worth recognizing, and perhaps talking out a bit, how we each would see Sanders, including nuances.
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Bernie is far from being an extremist. He is a Center-left politician very far from being a Blue MAGA/Far leftie
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I’m terribly sorry for your loss; I’ve never had anyone close to me pass away and wouldn’t know how to deal with it. Regarding the attacks on TYT, you make a good point about how they’re attacking TYT when they should be attacking the right or even establishment Dems. I’m particularly upset at those who claim to be farther left, but clearly were more interested in helping the Democratic establishment, including Majority Report, but, sadly, Francesca Fiorentini, who I’m sure will resign and seems to be gas lighting Cenk into doing so. Have you watched that “debate” in which she claims to be afraid of being fired and then proceeds to have ready-prepared comments, snide, sarcastic, mocking remarks, arrogant assertions she knows better than Cenk about calculating the percentage of applause in the room, and the constant interrupting? I’d also include Hassan. These folks use a 2 minute clip and then attack TYT as if it encapsulates the whole show. Ana isn’t anti-homeless people. She just covered that story yesterday with tremendous compassion with Cenk.
Emma Vigeland has moved more mainstream. While Majority Report were excellent on Gaza, they staunchly defended Biden as the Democratic candidate. I never saw them attack Biden on avoiding investigating Trump.
These people viciously attack Ana over not wanting to be called a birthing person, but are fine with a genocidaire?! They pushed AOC’s disingenuous attack on Jill Stein as “predatory” when that was one of our only leverage points to move Harris. They claim to be farther left when they really support the establishment.
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Preach, it! Preach it! The kissing up to the DNC is where Seder, Vigeland all lose me. Especially when they are now claiming to be more “pure” than Cenk and Ana. What those people will never get is that the mainstream/establishment Dems will never respect them. Especially if all they ever do is kiss their ass.
On a related note, Matt Taibbi lost me a long time ago. But watching Matt Lech on TMR telling Taibbi how to do journalism (this was after the Twitter Files) was like watching your hometown wannabe rapper telling Bob Dylan how to write songs.
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I gotta say, after watching the conversation between Francesca and Cenk, I see it differently than those who have commented on it. I think Francesca allowed Cenk to speak, was prepared, and was sincere. She tried to understand his point of view and asked for some compassion and understanding in return. (He couldn’t even say that her fears were understandable and give one second of empathy. Seriously?) The Turning Point crowd did not seem on board with treating Trans people equally, which was sadly obvious by the crowd’s reaction. I think Cenk tried to make his case quite clearly and then regressed into name-calling and putting words into her mouth. That’s when I get disappointed. I don’t care who he talks to so long as he treats everyone the same. I think he’s way softer when he speaks to people on the Right and reacts to disagreement from the Left in a way that he accuses them of acting. There were a few times there I thought someone stole his damn binky. He’s so much better than that! If he spoke to me that way, he might not be met with such patience. I’m worried about his blood pressure and think both he and Ana would do well to quit attacking people. They are grown-ass, intelligent people and need to show more of that. I seriously don’t care who they talk to, they just need to treat people the same and quit acting like they know everything (like how he would say he knew what Franny was really thinking; so arrogant and condescending). Acting like they never do anything that isn’t in some way amazing doesn’t help anyone, especially them. When one’s reaction is that of anger and defensiveness, one needs to figure out what is triggering them so they can better respond. Seriously, when he couldn’t give her an ounce of empathy, I felt like someone punched me in the gut. I actually got teary.
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I just watched this Francesca Cenk debate. It was unbelievably frustrating to watch Francesca who I normally enjoy when she fills in for the Young Turks show. But man her getting stuck on what Cenk means when he refers to the establishment was shocking. Trump is not your typical establishment and she even admitted it that he ran as an outsider. But saying he is not your typical establishment politician ruled by corp donors doesn’t mean he is a good guy or a left populist. He is different and horrible not different good. He is just in a different category of pure ego-driven self-interested chaos and a dictator wannabe, that might occasionally buck the establishment in the way that even Bernie and leftists may agree. This is possible even though we will get screwed overall.
And just because Cenk couldn’t get a maga audience to agree trans people have basic constitutional rights is not a poor reflection on Cenk. Give him a break. Cenk was saying they do have rights, he wasn’t saying they don’t have these rights!?!?! Why was that a bad look for Cenk? It was a bad look for that audience.
And Cenk is right. People who disagree should be able to fight on issues but still talk to each other.
And I must have missed this whole birthing person thing. I too would be offended if this is what I was called! Where did this come from ? Sounds a lot like the olden days of women should be barefoot and pregnant as if that is our only value. WTF !!! Seems like another horrible messaging mistake.
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When I say the corporate left (and all establishment politicians of any party for that matter), are the extremists, I say that because they are the ones holding our gov’t hostage from good faith legislation which the majority of people want and/or what is in the best interest of the country and planet. Trump and many of his enablers are another strain of extremists. Overthrowing democracy is obviously extreme.
We need to reclaim what is extreme and who is enabling extreme agendas and self dealing corruption.
It is extremely insane we cannot overturn citizen’s united, have fair competitive primaries, pass a living wage, advance gun control laws on assault weapons, pass medicare for all, negotiate drug prices, have fair trade not free trade, pass climate change legislation, phase out fracking and off shore drilling, end big oil subsidies, end Monsanto’s control on food and agriculture practices, regulate big banks and runaway wealth to shareholders at the expense of everyone else, stop privatizing everything from the post office, schools, internet access, prisons, Medicare, etc.
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thanks for the take i haven’t been able to bring myself to watch it
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