The Young Turks (headline show)

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I just noticed this watching the replay live, and the Tucker Carlson story is littered with commercials. How much money do you suppose that cost to do? I don’t think that kind of marketing helps the ads, or deter people from watching.
But it’s funny as F. Tucker is mad, I mean look at the tick marks, that’s crazy! That has to be 5 digits per commercial, there must be a dozen. Swanson’s working overtime, I hope they’re getting overtime, but I doubt it.

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Just watched a clip of nbc news now from a couple days ago and it mentioned Israel briefly, and I want to venture this is what triggered Ana, lumping every casualty into one number, “exchanging missile fire”, and very clever to leave Iron Dome out for a different piece, but also very brazen to show the Iron Dome so soon after, wasn’t that yesterday?
Back to back coverage, one depicting a mutual clash, the other Israel defending themselves with superior firepower… superior to even that of the United States, I mean holy geez, Iron Dome?! Our wall is like that swimming suit you absolutely didn’t want to wear but your parents made you wear for your friend’s birthday party, and now we’re at the party and it’s even worse than you thought
Why did we have to build a wall? An actual wall? It wasn’t even engineered, a piece is about to fall off into the gulf from erosion, so you know, not only do we have to wear this stupid swimming suit, the cheap material rips right down the back, and now America’s childhood is scarred for life.
Right? Real bad, oh I remember what those swimming suits are called, speedos.
What a nightmare.

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Missed most of the show because I was catching up on it, got to the lab leak story, and was then fuming mad at the coverage. This became way too long for a comment, so I’m posting it here. TL;DR is that the coverage was irresponsible, very badly informed, and bolsters a narrative that has been killing our Asian American brothers and sisters. TYT really should get a science advisor of some sort one of these days.

The issue is not just that coverage got the story wrong, but that the coverage itself was highly problematic. TYT is conflating two things that, and this is extremely dangerous: since December of 2019 “lab leak” meant it was a human engineered virus, but that changed more recently to instead mean “the Wuhan lab had a sample, whether they knew what they had or not, a researcher was infected and unknowingly spread it asymptomatically”.

The first case – human engineered – is NOT POSSIBLE. This is settled and has been for about a year now. If it was man-made the DNA would show signs of how we cut it up and spliced it back together. No researcher from any country has found any evidence of this, and all agree it arose naturally. This ‘hypothesis’ is geared for a new cold war (for the politicians) or a new hot war (for the military; cf Daniel Ellsberg’s recent Pentagon Paper’s follow up, for instance), and is embedded in a history of sinophobia that has been fueling anti-Asian hate crimes. It’s dangerous malpractice for TYT to be implying this ‘hypothesis’ has any credence.

Is the second case – accidental exposure of a researcher who then transmits it – possible? Improbably yes, and this has always been the case. There is no evidence for this case, and no new evidence has emerged. All the evidence we still have points to zoonotic transfer from a wild animal to an unfortunate person who came into contact with said animal. Is this evidence definitive? No. We don’t know either for sure, but the evidence currently – and only – suggests wild zoonotic transfer. Saying “What if” and acting as though new information is available is childish, at best, and serves a nasty and dangerous imperialist agenda, at worst. This is why (link below) a lot of scientists are upset about colleagues breathing life into this gossamer claim. And no, just because there is something in any journal, doesn’t mean there is now evidence: that is the beginning of understanding if evidence exists, not its conclusion. Not to mention the Lancet isn’t exactly a bastion of reputability. They still have shit smeared all over their face from when they published Andrew “Fucking” Wakefield’s obviously fraudulent study that said vaccines cause autism (yes, it was obvious; whomever reviewed that study should have lost their job over okaying that article).

But what about, as Cenk said, that it’s an 'incredible coincidence that there is a lab right next to where a pandemic-causing virus emerged? Well, riddle me this, why do marine biologists love having institutions right next to bodies of water?!? How about geologists being in places that are geologically interesting? Because they want to study that aspect of nature; it’s their job! If this was an institute in the Gobi desert or up in the Tibetan Himalayas and a pandemic emerged from there, THAT would be suspicious. We don’t put virology institutes there because there aren’t a lot of human-animal interactions to cause new viruses to emerge. China has a region where that does happen, so of course it’s in everyone’s interest (especially the scientists) to put an institution in Wuhan near this region. Doing so is only suspicious if Florida has a plot to foment harm through shark bites because, after all, they’re where the sharks are and have a lot more shark bites than Montana!

When is TYT going to get a science advisor? To date, with Jon’s specific coverage of climate change the one exception, I can not remember a single science story that TYT has covered in a legitimate way, and members who are scientists have been complaining about this for years. It’s not like you need to pay someone, either, most scientists are more than happy to explain their research (and it’s good practice to talk to people not involved, fyi). Plus, you have a number of scientists in your audience that can help weigh in and provide guidance for your coverage. Instead you pull a clip from Fox News? The only part of that clip that is relevant is the fact a scientist was willing – seemingly happily – to go on to that show. I don’t know about how journalist professors view Fox News, but it’s one that I would never allow a student to cite in my physics classes.

Scientists are upset by the few (including non-expert scientists) fueling this at the expense of attacks on Asian Americans, including their colleagues:

  • “Divisive COVID ‘lab leak’ debate prompts dire warnings from researchers”, Nature, May 27, 2021. /articles/d41586-021-01383-3

The evidence about the ‘lab leak’

  • “The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know”, Nature, June 8, 2021. /articles/d41586-021-01529-3

I just made an account coming from the lab leak video. I was planning on starting a thread about it but you beat me to it and did a great job too. I was not gonna make a post as long or as elegant as yours. I would like to add that this topic really shows how it is very hard to get people on the same page about anything, especially scientific topics even at their most basic.

If you havent read the book Spillover by David Quammen, read it it is fantastic. It was written in 2012 but has chapters about different viruses. I think you would enjoy it since it touches on what scientists know and don’t know about viruses and where they come from. The Ebola chapter in particular is great because we dont know where exactly it comes from. Scientists essentially only know the middle and end of the Ebola story but not the beginning.

I have a hypothesis that is grounded in research to explain why COVID vaccines are more effective than flu vaccines. Influenza viruses spillover between animals and humans all the time and it is all kinds of animals, it creates a huge diversity of variants already. SARS COV2 and viruses that are almost identical to it have only been found in bats. This means that animal to human spillover happens way less than in the flu. This lack of regular spillover created a monoculture essentially of SARS COV2. Even though the news puts out stories about new SARS COV2 variants and yes there are differences for sure, I am still not worried about them too much compared to influenza variants. It is precisely because every SARS COV2 variant comes from this monoculture, so even though mutations do happen, less of them happen compared to influenza. Because of this, I think that is why the COVID vaccines are way more effective than we expected them to be.

Ill end on this note, we need to forget about exploring who and when patient zero happened and instead focus our energy on researching animal reservoirs and spillovers. The hunt for the original spillover event is stupid because scientists already have found SARS COV viruses that are pretty much identical to COV2 in the blood and stool of bats they catch. We need to talk more openly about animal spillover since people forget that viruses have to come from somewhere in nature. It drives me nuts that people think that science is magic just because they dont understand it. Scientists are getting burned at the stake still, metaphorically rather than literally.


lols good luck out there matey!


TYT does not support any claims of COVID-19 origination.

In fact, whenever we bring up claims for such things we absolutely include every nuance of skepticism and critique.

COVID numbers is another example, though we don’t sound trumpets every single time, we know the under reporting is caused by politicians trying to hide the gravity of their terrible choices.

COVID coming from a Wuhan lab isn’t the believable story, we’ve already covered the investigations that do support the idea that COVID evolved from a wet market.

And before we start pointing fingers at cultural practices, we always make it known that the USA is certainly no arbiter for healthy practices.

We think everything is hunki Dori because everything is wrapped up neatly in plastic for your consumption.

Meat disassembly has buckets placed under the machines so you can urinate and not lose your place on the line.
Labor efficiency means forgoing the need to wash your hands.
They’re wearing gloves after all.

No one believes the lab accusations anymore than wet markets or bats.

Because the USA STILL questions the WHO, even though the USA was part of it’s conception, and have held a seat at the head of the table ever since.

Trump completely neglected those duties as President, and now we want to blame China, even though WE are the ones that are always self asserting ourselves as China’s watchdog, and that the USA is always first when it comes to staving off the “evils of communism”.

We demonize socialism as Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk play commie party with the American People’s taxes.

While we demonize any social spending for ourselves, blocking ourselves from a comfortable life.

What program are you watching?
That doesn’t sound like TYT to me.