Then later:
Stephanopoulos apologizes after saying Biden can’t serve another term
<sigh/>
I find it strange that I have to post this on a forum called “Operation Hope”; but when BOTH the debate debacle and the piss-poor Stephanopolous interview happened, it presented a fantastic opportunity for the Dem Party.
The MAGA Repubs are all about doubling down on a leader unfit for Office. This was a chance for the Dem Party to differentiate itself from the Repubs. “See? When we see there’s a problem, we address it. Those guys just double-down on dead-end ideas. We’re the Party of the Adults In the Room…” That could go so far as to convince some Never-Trumpers to vote for a replacement candidate on the Dem ticket.
The present denialism coming from Dems about where the polls are showing things are going is JUST AS BAD as MAGA Repub climate denialism [Stupid Hitler: “The weather is beautiful…” Let’s see how beautiful it is when you have massive famines because a farmer can’t grow anything in this (never mind some people dying from heat stroke…) And spare me on how vertical/indoor farming will save us! If it could, stock prices for vertical farming ventures would be going through the roof; they are not because the yield is paltry relative to the cost. “In the future…” -yeah, in the future WE WILL BE DEAD!]
So younger voters point to the present doubling down by BOTH parties and say to me: “See? They both are acting in bad faith!” Dems: you are breeding nihilism about public service for the sake of your careers. [Carville has mentioned this…] PLEASE STOP THIS BLEED OUT. Announce there will be an Open Convention and you will try your best to pick the candidate that is most well-received by the greatest number, while not throwing some shred of a rule of law out the window…
[And this is coming from a person who has thought Biden has done a superhuman job these past 4 years, in spite of an obstructionist Congress…]
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Its not that they are ignoring Biden’s polling. Its that they are looking at the polling of his replacements and they are doing worse than him.
And this is before the media starts digging up their hidden skeletons and dirty laundry.
Plus I have no idea who would want to run with biden’s baggage and commit political suicide. They could easily wait for a bad repub term or a good dem term to coat-tail on.
Plus there are funding problems because you cannot transfer the money without the approval of donors, Biden and harris, And I don’t see harris agreeing to fund her replacement because she knows she is never getting another shot at this. And for whatever reason, the establishment doesn’t like her in the top job.
If they skip her for someone else, they have to calculate the risk of losing black and female voters. They really cannot afford to.
Then they have to also think about risk and reward to down ballot races with the shift. There is only 2 months before early voting and they will have to start fundraising again and build name recognition nd hope some insane scandal doesn’t come out against their candidate.
And remember we arent going to get a progressive. This will be corporate ghouls picking a corporate sleazebag to undemocratically remove Biden, another corporate hack who was also put in by undemocratic means. Voters still don’t get any choice, and they will most likely move to the right of Biden who is already a Regan-Nixon-esque character. I don’t want to be any part of that.
It is time that Dems either start listening to their voters or get destroyed as a party. If they want to replace him, hold open snap primaries where VOTERS get to vote. Anyone can throw their hat in the ring. Hold 3 debates in 3 weeks, and then open polls for registered dems. And let them pick. That is the ONLY acceptable option for me. else they can continue with whatever BS and that will only be elites anointing their fave pet. I am not interested in helping them democracy face their despotism
I now quote Cenk: “Most ANYBODY will do better than him!”
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based on what? Where is the empiricial data? He kept saying Bernie would be more popular than Biden but Bernie lost the 2020 primaries because no one showed up for him. I have posted polls, I need data as counter. Nor gut feelings.
I keep saying - learn form the Tories. They ousted Boris Johnson, had a leadership crisis and installed Sunak and faceplanted into the worst defeat of 100 years. That is exactly what will happen here
Great discussion. I think 25th amendment is the cleanest and easiest option for Dems if Biden is too stubborn to step down. I think this is the Frankenstein monster they themselves created, but as much as i love to see corrupt Corporate Dems lose I definitely don’t want to lose our government to fascists. The little bit of government that actually helps the people. Too bad people in power are so damn greedy, they just want more and more power and they’ll break down the system to get it. We needed a strong third party decades ago. I wish the people with no power would unite and boycott the top two parties. 
in any case, I’ll do my part and light a few candles and pray God comes down and bitch slaps Joe in the face.
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Why the heck do members of the democratic party just keep saying Biden should step down WITHOUT offering up a capable alternative candidate ? Their method of just yakking about a problem over and over without providing a solution is the method of losers !! During my work history if I brought only a problem to the table (without a solution) I would have been removed from the team. Just sayin’ …
That’s what the discussion topic on this forum here is about:
https://discuss.tyt.com/t/the-new-candidates
An Open Convention would be the opportunity to present candidates. No replacement candidate can be discussed until Biden agrees to step aside; it’s a case of cart before the horse. If you’re saying that a replacement candidate is not possible to find for him, we have had straw polls showing there IS a field of possible replacements…
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Twenty-Fifth.
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Two gaffes in one day? And when he knows he couldn’t afford anymore, and yet he does so anyway?? It’s over; I doubt a 25 will be needed. A threat of that behind closed doors could have been done, but if it had come to that and he still dug in, it would have been a nuclear option -all would have lost. So while we are cringing when he gaffes, look at the bright side: it probably averted having to resort to a 25…
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I am starting to see the rationalization that Dems are committing themselves to. Cenk is shocked at the denial going on when he debates politicos about Biden’s fitness (and even if you are still in denial about that, let’s just say PERCEIVED fitness by a majority of voters…) I suspect some who appear to be in denial about Biden’s viability are secretly not, because they believe that for Biden to step aside would be to invite a Race-Card War over Harris in the Dem Party, leading to defeat. So, the defective thinking goes, better we get Biden across the finish line, then we can get Harris in on an Article 25 of Biden (presuming the Repubs get the receipts/testing, which if you look at this testimony by a Dem neurologist is a fairly inevitable thing…)
This is dead wrong. The Race-Card War that a replacement candidate could introduce can be avoided by having a fair Open Convention nominating process such as I propose on this thread:
https://discuss.tyt.com/t/if-we-get-an-open-convention
If she wins those two rounds of votes with a clear consensus, then it’s hers.
If the DNC does not agree to such a fair nominating process, then it’s 2016 all over again; people will sit out Election Day.
There’s just no way Biden can win now after this week of repeated disasters. To anoint Harris is also to lose. There is only one path to victory I can see: queue up the next replacement candidate (which can be Harris, should she win using the nominating process such as I describe…)
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Thank you!
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Lol. I actually want the Dems to show the American people how it’s done. Total immunity insane mad king president, we’ll need to practice so the extremely slow octagenarian Republican/Dem party can react on time.
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The Titanic is headed for the iceberg. If by replacing the captain there could be a chance to avert. I guess now we’re only thinking about time. But now is the time. Biden should drop out and pick someone he endorses at the convention or get taken out, the cabinet owes us a working president, that’s why they are there for. We need an Abe Lincoln type and we get the fossil of Andrew Jackson. He promised one term. If he keeps his promise i propose we build statues of the guy and his corvette.
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NO to having Biden anoint someone!
For openers, given that there is a debate by some as to his fitness, his picking someone would only serve to taint them.
Open Convention, delegates hopefully decide on the candidates that have the best ELECTORAL shot and have a modicum of respect for a rule of law. See this topic on how to insure that the choice is made without coercion by Dem leadership:
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I wanted Feinstein to resign so bad, she should have named someone for her voters to support and we could have had a special election. Instead someone was appointed. I’ll take advice and a choice over appointed. I just meant to replace him as a nominee at the convention.
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After I had posted my comment above on the faulty thinking and strategy of Dems still doubling-down on Biden, I actually found an example of this thinking in the wild from a pro-Blue pundiit that “it’s safer if we stick with Biden; we can then have Kamala step in…” It was expressed by the journalist David Capeheart, who typically gives informed analysis, but I have to part ways with his thinking here. It’s coming from a place of fear, as opposed to an analysis of cold hard electoral facts and historical precedents (which I find ironic, because those seeking to swiftly adapt to the new reality of Biden having blown it, which takes some courage, he calls in that same interview “Scaredycrats”…):
I did a jump-cut to the talking point of preferring to stand by his man; you can rewind the interview and watch its entire context, in the interest of fairness to David…
[As I always have to add to any calls to replace Biden: he has done a superhuman job these past 3-4 years, in spite of an obstructionist Congress. This is not me being unfair that he just flubbed the debate; this is the debate, the poor Stephanopolous interview, and multiple gaffes after that, that leads me to strongly believe that he has now given way too much cannon fodder in the months ahead to the Repibs, that they can use in saturation media campaigns that will make it impossible for him to recover from. When you assess that the polls are bad AND THEY HAVEN’T EVEN STARTED THAT MEDIA CAMPAIGN IN EARNEST YET (since they know a fourth degree black belt move could come out of the Democratic Convention, so for the moment they are keeping their powder dry…), doubling-down on Biden is to invite a sociopath to prevail and we then have a Dark Ages with regards to some semblance of a Rule of Law. At the moment we are staring from the edge of the brink at the end of the Great American Experiment. Sure: a replacement slate might not work; but I know the present slate now will not. Dems: differentiate yourself from the Repubs and show you are The Party of the Adults in the Room, that you address and adapt to problems as they arise; don’t double-down on a bad game plan, as the Repubs clearly do with a sociopath who is unfit for office.]
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Biden is STILL refusing to take a comprehensive neurological exam (see post: A Way to Remove Biden as Opposed to Hoping He Drops Out - #12 by patrie )
How would he possibly think he could still run and NOT have to take a test at this point?? This is NUTS!
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I think elections are won by facts and one’s record, sure. I also think voters vote on how they feel about issues and what their gut is telling them, which is a highly unpredictable factor. A lot can happen in the next four months.
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I think the Dems doubling down have now moved on from the fearful thinking that maybe Biden is the safest route to now going down to defeat “with dignity”. They won’t admit that out loud, but it explains their behavior that flies in the face of electoral reality.
They can kid themselves like that, but they are completely failing their constituents by not signing on to a walkout to Independent if Biden and The Owners of the DNC continue to barricade themselves in.
Dem Congress members now have no standing whatsoever to point the finger at the Repubs for not standing up to Trump (with a few notable exceptions like Adam Smith…)