Hey my man its ok to agree to disagree, we have our reasons, Be considerate, for every person you meet, is fighting a battle.
I have been very patient. VERY patient. But the only thing worse to me than people on the right who canā t get over themselves are people on the left who are as bad.
Does that sound hypocritical? Probably. But I donāt bring up topics for discussion unless I know in great detail what I am talking about and I am SICK of people with a laymanās understanding having the audacity the think their opinion is just as valid as mine.
This is ALREADY a major problem on the right and I will not suffer it on the left.
I do not go running around telling Neil Desgrasse how much I disagree with his opinions on Physics and I consider people just willy nilly tossing my opinions aside for their own ignorant onesā¦franklyā¦insulting. i have a RIGHT to be insulted and let them know THEY ARE OUT OF PLACE.
And no, I do NOT think I know everything:
When Other people express their opinions and viewpoints 90% of the time I either Either Find it interesting and ask clarifying questions or DO NOT SAY ANYTHING because I can tell they know more than I on the topic at hand.
You can be damn sure if I show up to disagree with them I have done my homework. Showing up spouting opinons on how to deal with Chinaā¦the critical foreign policy matter of our generationā¦ and obviously having done LITTLE TO NO real research is UNSAT. Making it clear that peopleās opinions are not inherently important when not backed up by facts is something WE NEED TO DO MORE OF.
My opinion.
My daughterās had an opinion on things since she was 5. I donāt make household decisions based on her opinions. At best I take them in to consideration if the matter is flexible enough for me to do so.
By they way, none of my responses till this one were directed at you, FYI.
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I know, Iām just saying squash it, thatās all bro, just saying donāt dwell in it, there a lot of other subjects we can find commonalities on.
You arenāt even trying to register what Iām saying to you.
China would slaughter us, we canāt even run away properly.
The only thing that would happen if we started war with China, is that the USA would get our asses handed to us in front of the world.
Not even combined powers of the nations in the UN have the resources to combat China.
Your PTSD is preventing you from looking at the full scope of whatās going on, and you wonāt look past your own tunnel vision to hear what is being said to you.
Agree to disagree sir, thatās as far as I think this conversation will take us.
Oh, so you were at the strategic planning session with me when developed our modern war plan with China 7 years ago? Funny. I didnāt see you there.
Or have you been involved in the more updated planning sessions since I left the Military?
Do you even know what the PLAN is?
Of course you donāt, but look how you talk like you know some shit. YOU DON"T KNOW SHIT.
Without Getting in to details;
The plan is NOT to invade China. It is to BLOCKADE IT. Why do you think China is pushing an increase in its naval power and the the āBelt and Roadsā initiative so hard?
We would not need to invade China. We would need to weather a couple days of mass missile barrage: (whichāwhile devastatingāwould not be nearly as bad as China INVADING Tania and the ACTUAL USA naval losses would be minimal despite all the conventional wisdom that the missiles are a threat. Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to target a Carrier and just how resilient modern carriers are? No. You do not)
So, we would manage the LIMITED NUMBER of missiles they could throw at us.
Then send all 355 ships of theirs into the bottom of the Ocean and obliterate every Chinese Aircraft that left Chinese Airspace. IIf it HAS to happen it is best we do it sooner than later because THEY JUST KEEP GETTING STRONGER. Right now they are exponentially more capable than years ago but still lack the organizational knowledge, institutions, Doctrine and leadership to effectively USE what they have.
Trust meā¦the USA may have trouble getting rid of men behaving as rats in tunnels but we are VERY VERY VERY good at destroying organized resistance. We are unbeatable when it comes to Defending and seizing ground. We just donāt have the immoral and institutional processes in place (THANK GOD!!! I donāt want them!) to effectively manage āContouredā Territory. Which we DO NOT want to do anyways.
But we there IS NO PLAN to invade China. Just economically devastate them but not allowing a single transportation ship to leave or enter their ports until they surrender. However long that takes.
After the initial destruction of their modern assets it would just be use playing Security Guard on their Coastline. Expensive but easily doable.
The NUMBER ONE incorrect thing people (including some military leaders sill) is that you must have ātotal victoryā to āwinā a War.
Beating China does not require an overthrow of their Government. It requires ending their ability to wage ECONOMIC war on the rest of us, which would INCLUDE ending all access to the international internet and Satellite systems.
Not a Single US Soldier would need hit boots on Ground in Asia.
But see you donāt KNOW any of that yet run around with an OPINION like you are some damn expert and its pissing me off. Especially when you then think my āPTSDā is messing up my thinking. GTFO, I am just tired of people of mediocre intelligents incoreectly thinking they are smart to the point of utter arrogance.
Dunning Kruger Much? That would be you. I try and tell you "Itās Complicatedā and all you can do in return is insist you "know everythingā while being quite obvious you KNOW NOTHING>
AND YES, IT IS PISSING ME OFF! Especially around military discussions. Why? Because not only are you wrong and creating a DANGEROUS mindset; you are FEEDING the right wing propaganda machine that insist we are a bunch of weak liberals who would not protect America. Frankly, talking with you, I am agreeing with them!
Do you know the REAL danger? DOING NOTHINGā¦cause that is what China wants. They need one thing and one thing onlyā¦TIME. Time .to keep stealing our tech , wearing down the Taiwan defensive infrastructure through overuse., Train, build, and further strong Arm their neighbors into siding with THEM over US.
Confict was NOT always inevitable. IT BECAME in inevitable when Obama let them build those islands. Now it is just a matter of HOW BAD WILL IT BE when conflict eventually happens. The reality? THe SOONER the better cause if you have been reading the news you would know NUCLEAR WEAPONS are their current priority.
What do you think is gonna be the solution to a China willing to NUKE US for ANY infraction? They DO NOT follow escalation of force culture like we doā¦
āWe need to make the US aware that no matter what threats it poses or forces it uses, Chinaās reunification will eventually happen. Setting stumbling blocks to reunification across the Straits would mean a fundamental confrontation,ā
Qouted from a NYT editorial understtood to be indirectly a communication from the Chinese Government, Itself.
China is not some passive foriegn country looking out to make its own place in the world. It is POINT BLANK TELLING US it intends to invade Taiwan and trying to manipulate us into getting out of the way.
If you believe just letting Taiwan fall to China is āacceptableā you are THE MOST DANGEROUS kind of pacifist. Because you believe in passivism to the point of allowing bullies to run the playground.
John Oliver just did a segment on Taiwan, and the evidence is compelling. Taiwan has their democracy under control. They arenāt even worried about China, look at how they run their politics, and youāll be hard pressed to come to their aid.
Sometimes people just need to work things out, and thereās nothing you can do to stop it.
I bet China is also keeping cautious, Iām sure they donāt want to get in there more than anyone else does.
could you elaborate a bit my man, I am curious, you donāt need to right a research paper just a synopsis will suffice lol
You mean THIS episode THAT I HAD ALREADY WATCHED: Taiwan: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) - YouTube
The one I commented as āLittle Macā: āCapitalism: The case for always being a coward and placating bullies so long as it can be done for profitā¦ā
The one that makes the exact OPPOSITE point that you think it does. They do not ask for independence because they FEAR China and currently have ZERO actual commitment from the USA that we will defend them. Period.
They want independence but just ASKING FOR IT will provoke a violent response from China. Not a probable one, and ACTUAL one. And that is DANGEROUS for them without a US commitment!
āThe Question of Taiwan CANNOT be passed from generation to generationā --From the cited Youtube video.
John Olivers Entire Conclusion is that we should do WHAT THE TIAWANESE PEOPLE WANT US TO DO.
But the Taiwan people CANNOT RISK telling America they want our support without first GETTING THAT SUPPORT. It is chicken and the egg.
Once again. Were you in the military with access to Top Secret information? Were you part of the planning process which included S-2ās (Military Intelligence) that Pretend they are China and counter BLUFOR Strategy? On what basis EXACTLY are you concluding āI bet China is also keeping cautiousā when it ABSOLUTELY IS DOING THE OPPOSITE?
Ending Strategic Ambiguity is something we stated America should have done a decade ago as part of the planning and advised we immediately support Taiwan because without a formal treaty China WILL invade. A formal treaty with Taiwan is currently THE ONLY THING THAT WILL PREVENT IT!
Once again, you stand by a position with MINIMAL information and refuse to budge . I am quite certian it is your EGO preventing this. Just like any old Right wing MAGA canāt accept the truth smacking them in the face cause they would rather look ignorant than wrong.
I mean the VERY video you cited stated the OPPOSITE of what you think it didā¦
im interested lets see where this goes but keep level headed, so many question, but I need just a bit more for information
No actually, I think I understand perfectly well, and John Oliver points that fact out ever more poignantly when John Cena had been brought up to help summarize the story.
You think itās China that got Cena to say that, or Taiwan?
Because I feel like Cena would act like a Tibetan Monk Super Sayan and go hunger strike for people he didnāt even know.
What I saw was a John Cena rushing to do the right thing after being explained by the people he was shouting freedom for.
John Oliver was saying no one knows Taiwan politics better than Taiwan politics.
Whatever Taiwanās struggles, they can handle making their own decisions, and we should respect thatā¦ but let them know too that they have a navy to back them should they need. Democracy is important, but so is human rights.
Just like the French could not fight the Revolution for us, but we had only needed to show noble cause, and we had allies to help us the rest of the way.
We can do that to, but Taiwan needs to choose their own fate, and Taiwan isnāt some helpless nerd in the corner, they are one the highest economic powerhouses in the World!
AMD is made in Taiwan, do you know AMD? The processor company that rose from the dead after decades and took their place as sole rival to intel, reclaiming themselves pushers of innovation and technology, they lead processor chip manufacturing, took only 5 years to go from penny stock to flying past Intel.
As if they havenāt been missing for 20 years!
I know that part has very little to do with Taiwan as AMD is an American company, but Lisa Su saw Taiwan as the potential to make quality computer chipsā¦ they are amazing, Taiwan has USA standard manufacturing, that alone gives them much bargaining power at their disposal.
Taiwan also took care of us, the planet, by alerting everyone of Covid-19 while China was trying to cover it up.
I think Taiwan has their shit under control.
Now compare that to the USA where you haveā¦
ALL OF THISā¦
Im have to agree on this one, I donāt think we should involve ourselves, unless asked or provoked to. Which begs the question that we personally take upon ourselves to interject nearly in every global issue, why? Let others clean up, thats how we learn, but again depends on the harshness of the outcome
I have no problem answering questions, and I am more level headed than you think. Spanking a child for misbehaving is a thing. So is spanking an adult for acting like one.
Which is what adults are doing when they run around spouting their opinion like it is just as important as everyone else, regardless of their actual understanding of the subject matter.
As I said, I donāt lecture Niel Degrasse on all the reasons I think Iām right and heās wrong about even the areas of physics that NEITHER o us fully understand.
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Once gain, you fail to understand two core realities.
#1: Without a firm commitment to defend Taiwan China WILL invade Taiwan. It is so much a part of the current Communist parties Agenda that they are actively seeking excuses NOT to do it but are pigeon holed down the path of DOING it.
#2: Taiwan CANNOT publicly state they want Independence of China without incurring and instigating the very invasion they are seeking to prevent. But they also know a course is set for an inevitable invasion.
Until you understand those two core realities NOTHING you say is anything but āblah blah blah blahā byan uninformed fool to me.
Thats the problem! THEY CANNOT ASK!!
They second they ASK us they will prompt the VERY INVASION they fear. China has already set that as a RED LINE of theirs and NOBODY thinks they are bluffing.
But WITHOUT a firm commitment of defense China has already made it clear they are on a path to FORCE reunification and doing everything they can to manipulate American into not getting involved.
The USA stepping up to the plate FIRMLY and drawing our own red line is the ONLY hope to STOP conflict. What looks like Warmongering is ACTUALLY the last, best hop for peace.
If we fail to do this China WILL invade Taiwan and after thatā¦ THEN we either get the war our āfence sittingā failed to prevent, anyways, or we find it acceptable that a forriegn power like China can invade and conqour modern democracies like Russia Di the Ukraine as the New Status Quo.
Once that has become the new Status Quo China will CONTINUE its BULLYING and FORCEFUL expansion with confidence we will do NOTHING. And it will CONTINUE till they have Eaten up All of Asia and the Pacific and directly threaten the very sovereignty of the United States in 100 years, or we finally stand up to them.
Newsflash: The LONG we take to stand up to them the WORSE AND WORSE it will be. Just like if we had sttood up to them over the issue with the Man Mad islandes a decade ago we WOULD NOT BE HAVING these problems now.
Inaction has CONSEQUENCES which eventually FORCE action, anyways.
As for global issues to interject ourselves into that is pretty simple; INterject in the ones that are a DIRECT threat to our interest like this one and STAY OUT of the ones that are mere nuisances and/or moral issues as opposed to actuall national threats. I.E. we should have STAYED OUT of Afghanistan save for perhaps the Special Forces Operations and NEVER invaded Iraq the second time.
Or gone into Bosnia, or Panama, or or really ANY affairs going on in Latin America that have lead to the current crisis of Mafiaās running the entire continent now.
Taiwan cannot state it, and you want to do it for them?
Itās not like China doesnāt know it canāt just go full imperialism to get what it wants.
There are international repercussions, China isnāt stupid, nor do they want rule of oppression.
China wants Taiwan back under Chinese control under conditions of loyalty to the nation and communism.
Chinaās play at the moment is to compete as a First World.
So long as they continue to do so and have reason to stay peaceful (there is no comparison to profits during peace and war), then everyone plays by the rules.
This worst case scenario means more than just China has to start shit, everyone has to give up for a free for all.
Taiwan complies because they are an economic super power! They cannot state they are their own country, but they happen to be a leading First World Nation by every metric except official recognition.
We donāt call China when we want to talk to Taiwan.
Taiwan has more independence from China than we have from corporate politicians!
That is the international policy Iād like to see us get away from.
I would feel much more comfortable if we applied our ideals of democracy with the rest of the world as we do within our own nationā¦ but, you know, less corrupt.
Why can the USA declare war on whoever and whenever we want?
This is where our disagreements with the world comes in.
The world keeps saying due process, then the USA responds, āyeah yeah yeah, just let me test these ordinances first!ā
Our fears on China are projection of corporate politicians trying cover the fact thatā¦ Capitalism hasnāt been a free market in decades.
#1 YES! Taiwan cannot ASK for our guarantee of protection so we must unilaterally GIVE IT to them Its called international power politics and no, it is NOT for people who lack the stomach for it. International politics is the SINGULAR most RUTHLESS aspect of the human experience and history is LITTERED with extinct civilization naive to this reality.
#2: China knows there are international repercussions which is why it is using diplomacy as ANOTHER weapon in its desire for expansion.
#3: You keep talking like you know what China wants WHEN YOU HAVE NO CLUE.
Dude I am really getting frustrated with you. What is your BASIC for your opinions? You DO NOT HAVE ANY other than what you DESIRE reality to be not WHAT REALITY IS. I am not telling you Chinaās goals because I pulled them out my ass.
#4 Are you just IGNORNING shit I am saying now so you can spout your China Propoganda? THEY ARE TIME NOW NOT BEING PEACEFUL! Not JUST inside their country where they are in the middle of an actual Genocide (we can do nothing about) but in how they are dealing with the countries AROUND THEM. Search: Chinese Fishing Fleets break international law and discover the HORRORS that is China seaizing WHAT IT WANTS, WHEN IT WANTS, and KILLING people to do it.
#5 Yes. Exactly. They are a VERY WEALTHY first World Nation which CANNOT DEFEND ITSELF against China. ANd has NO treaties promising anyone will 100% step in . So they straddle the fence. It was workedā¦UNITL NOW.
It is reaching a point where it will NO LONGER WORK.
We MUST choose and NEITHER choice an easy one but defending Taiwan is clearly the RIGHT ONE.
I am offended by your LEAP suggesting I want to Declare War on China.
NO.
I want to DRAW A LINE and Tell China NO MORE BULLYING. But tthis LINE MUST be drawn and we MUST be prepared to throw punches if it is crossed.
It is not US starting it if THEY cross the line. But if we do not create this lineā¦they will keep getting worse and worse.
Dude, seriously, HOW MUCH research have you done on China since we started this conversion?
Have you bothered to further you understanding at all?
Or even after me bluntly telling you that you are VERY NAIVE on the realities have you bothered to do ZERO to further educate yourself and yet STILL keep spouting your naive opinions?
The more you argue without studying the realities to more I am getting offended that you find it acceptable to spout Chinese Propoganda I have to debunk and wasting my time on you.
Name me some things you have read/studied since we got onto this topic that have at ALL challenged your beliefs?