Liberals and Democrats are always going after the mythical conservative voter who can be persuaded to vote Liberal or Democrat. They seem to be completely unable to comprehend that conservative votes belong to conservatives, whether from an ideology rooted in the conservative’s right to those votes (divine right or authoritarian right, etc.), or by the human psychological nature that like belongs to like, or must align with like.
If we learn ANYTHING from Trump and the Republicans, there does not seem to be a limitation to the conservative right to conservative votes, or a organisational method to evaluate and invalidate or revoke that right.
It is pretty apparant, that generally except for issues of great importance to a significant portion of the public (abortion rights for example), conservative voters will withhold or refrain from voting before they vote for non-conservative politicians.
While liberal politicians may realize small gains from the small fraction of conservative voters who might be compelled morally to make “the right choice” or who leave the Republicans, the vast majority of conservative votes will always belong to conservatives.
Furthermore, while conservative turnout might be depressed in the case of an unpopular candidate, it seems that conservative turnout is more likely tied to the likelihood of how an election furthers conservative goals, such as the conservative prediliction for authoritarianism and subjugating the general populace to their ideology.
I was just saying over on the TYT Discord that Kamala Harris and the DNC are too busy going around the Swing States with Liz Cheney trying to get that elusive GOP voter instead of trying to get the Democrat voter and it will probably end up costing them the election and us the country. It is the same thing that they have been doing since 2000 and proof to me that the DNC is not a “left wing” party anymore and has gone back to the Original Democrats and are Center-Right.
I agree 100%. And when Kamal said she plans to have a Republican in her cabinet, and a bi-partisan committee to advise her administration on policy, I couldn’t decide if she is really that mired in DC groupthink, or trying to lose on purpose. A good friend of mine said, "Don’t you think it’s a good idea to get opinions from people with different ideas than us?, I realized it is not just Dem politicians who suffer from this delusion. This isn’t 50 years ago, and these aren’t good faith actors exchanging ideas on how to make life better for ordinary Americans. These are 2 corrupt groups. One is totally bought off by corporate donors, while the other is 90% so. They only differ on culture issues. Repubs use their rhetoric to direct anger, bigotry and violence against marginalized groups of people in their attempt to distract their voters from real issues, while Dems use their to show voice support for those groups, also while distracting from real issues. Although when it comes down to actually providing protection to the marginalized, they fall far short.
While I get what you all are saying, I find it hard to paint all Republicans, all Democrats, all Conservatives, or all Liberals with the same brush. In my opinion, the only way to move in a direction that helps everyone and is equitable, we must find common ground. Sure, the loudest people might seem unreachable, but just because they’re the loudest doesn’t mean they’re the majority. I think most people are trying to do the best they can, it’s just that not everyone is afforded the same information. Even Liz Cheney said she’s now Pro-Choice because she only looked through her narrow lens and never truly realized the harm that taking away a woman’s right to healthcare could mean. I know everyone will hate me, but I like to see people come together and have hope that this is the way to bring about positive change. (Please don’t kick me out of TYT! )
Lol, no one is gonna be hatin’ on you Andrea. You are one of the most positive people in the TYT family. And your point about finding common ground is a good one. Finding areas where we can work together is great, as long as the individuals are acting in good faith, and we limit our collaboration to those specific areas. But the core agenda of working on behalf of the people should not be compromised. Kamala has already begun to abandon some of the policy positions she held 2 months ago. She is pivoting to the right. That is my issue.
@drea_m_r_76 People can do better than “trying their best”. When I began to start writing my policy reports based upon academic research, I subscribed to a mass email service so I could send a link to each report (published free on draft2digital) to the just over 1000 Canadian politicians without tripping over email filters. I also linked them my patron because I was spending thousands I did not have on various services and access to academic research.
While a handful took the time to personally thank me for my work, more politicians (usually conservatives unsurprisingly) unsubscribed to the list than downloaded and read the free reports.
Ever since then, I have continued to work to make sure liberals, the NDP, Democrats, and independents know that I have the information they need, but you can only lead a horse to water.
They do not have the excuse that they do not have the information they need. They can get it from me anytime they want, and if they do not want to hear what I’m saying, most Democratic governments have mechanisms in place for politicians to commission reports for any information they need to do their job. Additionally, Cenk is literally yelling at them to “WAKE UP!!!”, and he is literally yelling at them some of what they’re doing wrong.
Right now, the liberals and Democrats are standing in front of a warehouse full of free bottled water saying to us: “Gee Whiz, I really wish I could help you, but I really need to find some water before I can do that.”
While I get what you are saying, it is a fact that people can only do their best. That’s what the word means, and everyone has different abilities. And to assert that everyone has equal access and ability to access information is simply not true. Unfortunately, access to tangible help and accurate information is a privilege not equitably afforded to many including the poor and BIPOC populations. All I have to do is visit members of my family living on the reservation to see this.
@drea_m_r_76 My bad, as you used Liz Cheney as an exampe, I thought you trying to say that politicians are trying their best and do not have access to the appropriate information, which is objectively untrue. In the case that people in general not having access to the appropriate information, it would probably help if we collectively stop accepting political figures as reliable and valid sources of truthful information, as in general, most of them are the worst offenders in regards to not providing reliable and valid sources of truthful information.
I can see where you would have thought that’s what I was saying. And I completely agree that politicians have no excuse for ignorance, at best, and purposefully give citizens mis- and disinformation, at worst (and far too often!). Sadly, we often cannot count on our politicians to give us accurate information.
This is not scientific, but here in the most conservative Congressional District in swing state WI something is noticeably different this year. It constantly surprises me driving around the area.
Where I live it is all small towns/ with little suburburban residential neighborhoods in between lots of farms so … semi rural and lots of driving on 2 lane county roads. There are some farms and large roadside properties that have the craziest loyal trump signage that have never come down since the 2016 race. And every election cycle there are just a tiny few Dem signs that go up in the same yards. All predicable.
But this year I am seeing Harris signs in lots of places/ private yards that I have NEVER seen Dem candidate signs before. I am shocked every day I go somewhere different and see Harris signs.
When some county party volunteers stopped by my condo, they said they are in fact getting more Republicans coming into the local Dem Party office for signs.
Now a WPR article came out today comparing the candidates for the 5th CD saying how our Republican incumbent Congressman got 64% of the vote in 2022. The highest %Republican Congressional win in the state.
I have been told by poll workers that my particular polling location has the highest % Republican turnout in the state, even if the population is smaller.
In 2020 Trump won my county with 68.4% to Biden 30.3%. So yes I am shocked by the number of Harris signs I am seeing!! I am very curious what the vote results will be this year compared to normal.
@amyns That would be because there actually are republicans crossing party lines. Unfortunately, until the election comes and the votes are tallied, we do not actually know if a significant number of Republicans are coming over, or if it is a VERY VOCAL minority.
Part of the Democrat’s stupidity is the fact that they are gambling on that a significant number of Republicans are crossing party lines due to REASONS (what those are, your guess is as good as mine), and historically, Republicans have never done that in significant numbers EVER, making this election the FIRST time ever for this to happen, if it happens.
Instead of gambling on a questionable outcome, the Democrats could GUARANTEE their win by mobilizing progressives, liberals, democrats, minorities, the youth, and the working class to SHOW UP to vote, by giving them what they want.
To give them what they want, they just have to enact POLICY that is already POPULAR and what the majority of the general population wants. Unfortunately, enough Democratic politicians are financially captured by corporate interests, religious interests, and foreign interests that the majority of the Democratic politicians REFUSE to let the Democrats do that.
Agree with all you are saying. I am just describing what I am seeing on the ground and giving context to my observations.
I hate the idea of voting for Kamala but I will. Every day it gets harder to think about. In 2016 and 2020 I voted Green - in protest - in my swing state.
@amyns Most definately the right move voting for Kamala, and additionally, there are enough factors outside what the Democrats are doing, or hoping enough conservatives cross party lines, like various media, factions, groups, and organizations pushing people to vote, that I think Harris/Walz still has an excellent chance to win. Unfortunately, the Democrats may lose the house and/or senate.
so all the extra Harris signs in my county… did not have an impact in the vote %. not all precincts reporting but it is still a 70/28 split with almost half my county in.
Makes me wonder all the extra signs were closeted dems that were desperate to take a stand who normally wouldn’t put a sign out … and not an actual shift with peeling off Republicans.
Yeah, not going to lie. It’s probably going to be like other western democracies flirtation with authoritarianism and/or fascism. We’re all going to have to hang on and hope the guard rails hold when the republicans try to break the government.
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