I will not vote if Biden is on the ticket. I am fed up with the Dem party. I am angry with Biden for even running again. I voted green in protest last time. Biden barely won WI. I used to be a guaranteed blue vote. I was going to suck it up and vote Biden because 1/6 changed everything. But Biden’s stubborn selfishness since the debate will make me sit out the election.
Biden will not drive voter turn out. We cannot rely on the ‘fear of other’ cycle after cycle when nothing changes in between to actually improve people’s lives, and worse the party does nothing to fix itself! At some point you throw up your hands and give up. I am there. I will not reward Biden for his delusions. I will not enable the Dem Party to continue to ignore and sabotage real progressives.
I like how you keep repeating the things I have posted as if I don’t know them. # days ago I mentioned that hate is an exhaustive emotion and they wont be able to continue milking it for another election cycle. People aregetting tired of it especially when they are struggling to make ends meet.
The thing that you dont seem to understand, if you ever manage to get past your childish petulence, is that changing Biden wont drive out the vote either. Are you going to be energised to vote for another corporate hack? Someone MORE to the right wing of Biden? Because it isn’t going to be anyone from progressives.
Plus independents wont be affected at all because when it comes to incumbents, they don’t vote for the candidates, they vote based on how they feel the pat 4 years have been. And unless you have a candidate that drastically differs from the establishment, you arent going to change that perception. Vote for what? 4 more years of inflation and wars? These corporate hacks they put in place wont change anything in the platform. That is the problem. They want to fool people by changing the label on the bottle and call it a day. I want to throw the whole bottle out because it stinks. So I am not interested in helping them get the glue off before they slap on a new one.
If you change the whole platform with someone actually progressive, that will actually produce change. For that you need voters to vote, not corporate ghouls called delegates. If you don’t do that and put just another hack in place then you will get all the negative affects of the chaos but you get nothing in return. You helped them democracy-face their corporate despotism and they expect us to shut up and stop whining about it.
So if they want to change him, then I rpeeat - the only way I support it is open primary where anyone can throw their name in, 3 debates in 3 weeks and then snap elections where VOTERS chose the candidate. Else who cares? Run Biden or run some other right wing corporate lapdog. I am off the ship
wow. Sorry I do not see your every post! I am relatively new to navigating this tyt forum.
Any Dem who can speak full sentences, even another corporate hack, will drive more votes than Biden. Maybe they wont excite the likes of us but there are plenty of people that just want anyone besides Trump and Biden without having to go 3rd party.
Even I would suck it up this one cycle for almost anyone the DNC puts up. We cannot pretend Biden is competent to be President. This cannot be acceptable or the new norm in our politics!
But if pollsters etc are asking who I want… I am passionately giving a progressive option!
At minimum, I believe an open convention puts a giant spotlight on the process and creates a lot more discussion and potential pressure on the party to make changes.
Ashley Allison on CNN (who drives me insane) recently admitted she worries people will start asking more questions about who the delegates are if we have an open convention. My response is… that is a good thing! Yes please!
We all know delegates are all Bidne stooges. We have known that since the primary. He specifically went around forcing them on the lists back then.
Like I specifically said, people don’t vote for who is on the ticket when its about incumbents. They vote based on how they “feel” past 4 years have been. Unless we have a massive 180 degree u turn candidate (progressive), people are still not going to be incentivised to vote Dem if they already weren’t. But we do have people who will not vote dem. Biden does have an old people following. And there will be a lot of people pissed that the replacement is just another establishment right wing de,. Plus it will create an image of chaos for no actual reward which the markets aka donors don’t like. If you really want to get rid of Biden, then just anointing Harris makes the most sense instead of going to an open convention
You are missing the point, my friend. You pointed out that Black voter turnout has declined since 2008. I responded that a large part of the reason for that decline is the growing feeling among Black voters that our vote is being taken for granted. That feeling has led to the reduction in Black voters turning out for Democrats, regardless of whether YOU think the feeling is valid or not. And having a diverse cabinet doesn’t address that, nor does putting a Black person on the ticket. That was my point, my friend.
Plus the economy is really hurting black communities - among other minorities. especially since many minorities have low generational wealth and low savings. So yeah, I agree. There are genuine problems with Dem platform that identity politics wont fix.
Observation on the thinking that it would be an outrage to pass over Harris: this was done once before. It was supposedly Hillary’s turn in 2008, and it went to Obama. Hillary/Hillary’s people blew it in 2016 because of an unfair nominating process. If they had conducted a fair one and she prevailed against Sanders (in my opinion, that was a possibility…), a lot of non-Repubs would have turned out on Election Day. [“How was it unfair?” Superdelegates, purges of newly registered Dems in NY State just before the Dem primary…]
Harris needs to go off and improve her communication skills, and she can then run in 2028/2032. When they trot out the ads then of a word salad, she can sheepishly say, “Yeah, I used to talk like that…” But if by then she has no longer been talking like that for a few years, it will have little effect.
We need the strongest electoral candidate this November, and sorry: I don’t think it’s Harris…
Dude, its not about passing over a VP. Its that a lot of black people (not saying all but many) will see this as a middle finger to them if you pass over a Black woman in favor of someone else. Especially, since theoretically, she is most qualified because of having the VP experience, What explanation are you going to offer for sidestepping them both? If Biden was unfit, then the natural course is to let VP take his place, That is LITERALLY the VP’s purpose
Nobody is talking about passing over the VP if Biden steps down before January 8th. But we don’t have to have a royal succession before or at the Convention.
I’m sure there are women who felt it was unfair that Obama was picked over Hillary in 2008.
It’s a shame for Harris that Biden did not have a more prominent role for her these past 3-4 years; that’s not her fault (though her not changing her communication style these past few years is on her…) But if a majority of electoral votes won’t choose her, now is not the time to be staging a “vote of conscience” (<joke>Maybe if McCain or Romney were running on the Repub ticket, it would be…</joke>) We have a lunatic who with two Houses will INEVITABLY be getting rid of term limits so he can be king for life, and then pass it on to his son.
A lot of the thinking on running with Harris is: “I don’t want to betray my egalitarian ideals…” You saw that on the last Turks show (link). Yeah, it sucks; but America getting a lunatic dictator will suck a lot more!
But women were more concerned about abortions rights than skipping over Hillary. Plus there was more of a problem with Hillary chivving bernie to care about women. Plus that isn’t a great example because we LOST that one, remember?I don’t understand why people keep talking about 2016 as if Hillary won. is half the lef tin denial about those election results along with Hillary? And that is Despite the fact that Obama picked hillary over Biden way way way earlier in the cycle and not 2 months in advance. So even if your logic is correct (which it isn’t), we should follow in the footsteps of an election we already LOST?
The choice is now clear.
If you go for an open convention, that means you are saying we are no longer going to fight for the presidency and choose to take all the money and use it for downballot races.
If you anoint harris, the money stays on the ticket and you say you are fighting for the presidency.
Trump is the bigger problem as you agree :
so why would you support a position that literally says, we arent even going to fight for the presidency anymore?
Check the years I cited: 2008, Clinton was skipped for Obama; 2016, she or her people unfortunately ran a slimy race which screwed the pooch for her.
We disagree on the point that an Open Convention spells doom for the Dems winning the Presidency. I respectfully disagree; a strong pick in terms of electoral vote capture coming out of it could flip the script…
I am not even talking about WHICH candidate. Did you even read the comment I posted under that topic? Its about the MONEY.
If you go to an open convention, this is NOT an opinion, this is a FACT - the MONEY will to a PAC. If Harris doesn’t sit on it and makes it unusable. From where they will use it for down ballot races instead of presidency. I have not heard you even address the point once while you keep straw-manning with things no one cited.
If you are citing 2008, that makes even less sense because HIllary lost fair and square to Obama in the primary. The fact that she ran in a primary has nothing to do with picking her as VP which has nothing to do with the current situation at hand. I was assuming you were talking about Obama skipping over his VP Biden FOR Hillary for 2016 presidential run and mistyped or were making some multi year connection or something. But 2008 makes ZERO sense for your argument.
The money for the alternate slates come from what they can show at their Open Convention pitch is to be delivered to them by disaffected donors who make a contractual schedule of delivery IF they win the nomination. This is part of the reason the clock is being run out on getting Biden out and Congress members are not enforcing a deadline (which a group could force with a THREAT in private, with a deadline, of a walkout from the Party to Independent, and warning they might even sign on to an Article 25…) The Owners of the DNC want to fix it so that alternate slates have as little time as possible to arrange for funding, so then we go: look at that! Guess it will have to be Harris! The deals they had with Biden will be preserved by Harris.
Remember: I already said I would vote on Election Day IF they have an Open Convention, and IF there is an anonymous non-binding vote/poll that shows she is the consensus pick [as much as I’m convinced she would be losing!] We will then be having a vote of conscience, and not one based on the strongest electoral chances. We will be getting a dictator…
There’s talk about how Biden would step down after confronting NUTanyahoo at a Congressional speech this week. I don’t believe that for one second! It’s just more moving of the goalposts, digging in, and buying time to effectively coronate Harris as the candidate [by not allowing time for Open Convention slates to get their act together…]
There would be nothing keeping him from confronting NUTanyahoo as President…
While they may be gaming the funding of the alternate slate, the Question we are dealing with is what happens to the money pledged to the Biden-Harris ticket. If Harris is “anointed”, then the money stays with the ticket. If we go to an open convention, the money either stays with harris or it goes to a PAC where they use it for downballot races. Which means in that case they wont even be fighting for the presidency and I am not okay with that
